You have how many open tabs?!

Welcome to Changelog and friends, a weekly talk show that's all that. Thank you, as always, to our friends at fly .io, the home of changelog .com. Fly transforms containers into micro VMs that run on their hardware in 30 plus regions on six continents, so you can launch your app near your users. Okay, let's talk. Hello, friends. Jared here. On this episode, we're taking you to the hallway track at that conference in Austin, Texas, where we have three fun conversations for you. One with our old friend Nick Nisi from JS Party, one with our new -ish friend Amy Dutton from compressed .fm, who has been a guest on JS Party of late, and one with our brand new friend and longtime listener Andres Pineda from the Dominican Republic. Speaking of the hallway track, when we first conceived this talk show flavor of the changelog, the only tagline I could come up with at the time was, it's like putting the hallway track at your favorite tech conference on repeat all year round. We think that captures the vibe of Changelog and Friends, but I'm not in love with the tagline by any means. You've been listening to Friends for a while now. Can you think of a better one? If you can, email it to editors at changelog .com. If we dig what you come up with, maybe we'll use yours instead, and give you all the credit, and send you some free stickers. Yeah, we'd love to do that. Okay, first up, it's Mr. Hoy Hoy himself, Nick Nisi. It's hard because you can't hear yourself, so you're not sure. I can see my waveform. There you go. You're solid. We've done this before. It's fine -tuned exactly where it needs to be. It's like being able to read The Matrix, you know? I can see my waveform. This guy's a pro. He knows what his waveform looks like. I was thinking a potential backup, if Danny said no, was to talk about browsers on the stage. With Nick? With Nick, yeah, because, well, going back to the Friends list, it's a popular episode in recent times, and this is a polyglot conference, and I figured, well, browsers are pretty important at the conference like this, so let's talk about browsers. I have not played with ArcSense, that conversation. I'm strictly a Safari person. You went back? Yeah, I did. Oh, man. We're all back on Safari. Oh, I'm not using Arc. Okay. But today, I just did download ArcSearch on my phone. I heard about it. I just wanted to check it out. I don't know even what it is. What is it? I have no idea. It's from Arc. I get emails from him. ArcSearch. Yeah, I got the email, but I was too busy to read it. Wasn't there some legislation recently with Safari and Apple and browsers? I saw a headline. Oh, my goodness. I didn't hear the details. It's wild. Do you know the details? I know some of the details, I think. So in the EU, they will allow third -party engines to be on the browser or on the phone, and they will present an option. For default browser? Yeah, for default browser. So you do not have to pick Safari anymore, which I'm torn. Like, A, I'm in the U .S., so it doesn't matter. I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like that all of this stuff came out, and it's so different between the EU and the U .S. It just feels like they're just being so petty, you know? They are. Well, I wonder if they're leading away in a way, though. It's malicious compliance is what they're calling it. Oh, for sure. Well, I just wonder if they're leading away in a way. Like, will we, because it's happening there, will it be essentially absorbed elsewhere because it's... Not according to Apple. No? You'd hope so, but... Well, I think we'd have to pass similar legislation in the U .S. for them to do it. Yeah, which won't happen. My biggest concern, though, is the amount of tabs. I'm at 500.

What

do you mean? I have 500 tabs open on Safari. And you cannot go... With a red X, you can just click that. This is a concern, but not for the browser wars. Well, I want more than 500 tabs, okay? Is there a limit? You found the limit? Yeah, I'm at my limit, yes. When I go to new tab now, I cannot new tab past 500. Can you create a new, like, tab group or profile and then go again? Well, I haven't tried that. Maybe. I'm pretty sure that's a feature, Adam. 500 tabs is ridiculous. Sorry. How do you expect them to sync all those between browsers and everything? They just... They just do. Do you have no... There's, like, recipes in there and stuff like that. I haven't, like, got... So it's some to -dos that I just have not done, obviously. But that's a lot of to -dos. Sorry. I mean... That's like a... The main thing, man. ...inbox 500. You're at tab 500. Tab 500. Well, if you ordered a Vision Pro, I just hope you got the high -end model, not the base storage. Yeah, you're gonna need some RAM on that sucker. No Vision Pro for me. To hold those things in. There was actually... Did you... I think we talked about Ready Player One and Ready Player Two. Did you listen to or read those books? Yes. I listened to both of them. Okay. So were you thinking, like, the ONI headset from Ready Player Two? The O -N -I? They called it the ONI headset. The ONI... With Vision Pro, you mean? Like comparing Vision Pro? Yeah, because the Vision... So the book is called Ready Player One, Ready Player Two. It's a movie as well. Yeah. And Ready Player Two... I don't want to spoil it, but it goes beyond this haptic wares they would do to get into the VR, into the OASIS, right? And there's a revelation in the second book that essentially takes that to one more layer. And I don't want to ruin it, so I'm going to be vague just because of that if people are listening. Screw it. Spoiler alert, okay?

It

goes like... I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. It goes straight up, like, how would you describe it? Like, you're in it. It's not VR anymore. It's like connected to your brain. And they call it the ONI headset, but they just really call it ONI. So I feel like the Apple Vision Pro is like the precursor to our fiction turned reality, I suppose. You know what I mean? Like, it's going to influence that. Like, this is like the original OASIS headset moment. And then the... I'm waiting for the ONI headset. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? You can unplug now. You're good. Are you done? Jared was plugging his ears. You don't want to ruin it. All right. You probably won't even listen to or read these stories, though. No. I just like to not be spoiled. Okay, don't be spoiled. I'm excited for that. And I think that there's... Like, this is the precursor to a lot of things, right? This is the worst version of the headset that's ever going to be produced. And if you look at, like, what they... All of the rumors that were coming out of, like, German and stuff before, like, they were shooting for glasses. And this is the compromise because they can't do the technology. They can't get it done. It is so heavy, though. Like, I see people wearing it. And I'm just thinking, like, I'm not a VR guy necessarily, but I just think, like, it has to change its form factor for it to be having mass adoption. Battery life, obviously. Like, who wants to wear... A battery pack in your pocket? Well, like, anything that heavy on your head for that long. The battery actually doesn't go on the head, right? It goes back... Oh, yeah. They'll sell you a $50 clip so you can clip it to your belt or something. I bet they would. Those are cool. They'll be really cool. What about the cable to get to the clip? $200 bucks. Yeah, exactly. It's $200 bucks for a travel case. Yeah. I didn't even price it out this time. I just skipped it all together. But we've got things like that. We've got the Neuralink, which I will be the last person on Earth to sign up for. And Disney just had that thing with the holo tile floor. Yeah, that was cool. We can walk. That was really cool. That is really cool. But that was in Ready Player One, too. Like, in the movie, at least. Right, right. In that case, it was kind of like a treadmill, though, where their version was, like, small spheres, balls. You can walk any direction, and there's,

like...

Are they balls? They're, like... They look like ball bearings or something, but they're not metal. And they'll move, and they'll keep you in the center, roughly in the center of this little patch of balls. I wonder if they just, like, put ceramic balls, which... That ball bearings that are ceramic are the most expensive and the best, so that'll, like, hold a human's weight if they run or walk. And they just, like, lubed them and, like, put them in a space that they fit perfectly. Yeah. Is that the science, right? And there's something beneath it that sort of, like, has sensors. I don't know. It's cool, but, like, I don't see that being a practical thing that I installed in my house. I mean, I could... Well, I can't say that, because I haven't actually experienced it, but it looks, like, similar to, like, when you're on a treadmill and they'll put those videos in front of you where it's, like, you're actually in the Himalayas right now, and it's, like, no, dude, I'm on a treadmill. Well, the good thing that all of this tech has working for it is, like, you've seen the pictures. Apple tried to, like, take the pictures, and they only, like, sent out, like, okay, these are the pictures we're going to let you actually post and things like that. And not one of them looks cool. I'm sorry. Like, I want a Vision Pro. I definitely do. You do. But they look really dumb. I'll just say that. On your head. Like, you look dumb. And once you lose that little amount of dignity, then I'm totally fine, like, getting, like, one of those things that my kids would have when they're little. All in. Yeah. I'll just have, like, you know, a diaper kind of attached to the ceiling that's holding me up, and I can just kind

of...

Well, this is, like, if you watch Ready Player One, it's a lot like that, right? In the movie Ready Player One, it's very predictive in terms of where we might go or what does work, because they, like, have hanging, they have haptic suits where you have, like, literally in your, what do they call it, the crotch fiber inlay or something like that. Like, there's a joke in the movie, like, you can feel, you know, all those things. I mean, that movie is probably predictive in a way to what might be coming. And also quite scary because if you read the second novel, it's not good, let's just say. Doom and gloom. Well, you can't have a good story with just Utopia. Utopia is the boringest thing there is, so you gotta have doom and gloom, otherwise you got no storyline. For sure. So, makes sense. Makes sense. But I can't believe we just cruised right past this rendering engine thing. I mean, I can't because it's Apple Vision Pro, but alternate rendering engines only in the EU, but that seems like it's probably good enough to at least get all the benchmarks out there and see if WebKit on iOS, Safari on iOS is actually slow. I've always thought it was pretty snappy, I mean, as the phone's gotten real fast. But who knows? Maybe they're, you know, intentionally keeping it slow so that their app store is more flourishing. Once we can have alternate rendering engines, even if we don't use them here in the States, the benchmarks will be out there and that, I think, will spur them on to make it fast. It'll push the innovation for sure, like even, yeah, I suppose that's true. It might actually influence Apple to allow us to have that if there is innovation that comes from the act of choice, right? Well, I think just the embarrassment of it will be enough. Yeah, like if you're slower than the competition, this may not be what y 'all feel, but the number one feature I can outstand is when I swipe back to a tab and it has to refresh. Right? Like, does that just drive you crazy? It does. And it like shows you like a pre -rendered, like an old render of it. That's what it used to look like. And I like, I'm trying to like tap something and it's like, oh, wait, that's basically an image. And then it refreshes and it's not at the same place anymore or the content's gone and you're like, oh, I saw you're like on a terrible connection and you've got to wait, you know, the back and forth in the multitasking between tabs is just like, I do not like the let's re -render that page. Like, no, just stop. Don't do that. Give me what was there, even if it's not accurate, because I'm just reading it, not interacting with it, you know? But you have 500 tabs, so you can't really blame the browser for that. I mean, how's it supposed to hold all those? I can do that. How's it supposed to hold all those in memory? Buy the bigger phone, deal with it. I don't know. What are those? What are those actually doing for you? Being there, right? Is there like a comfort knowing? So I will admit I am not happy about my situation. I feel, I don't think this is optimal. Well, I'm focusing on the main thing and the main thing is not closing tabs, right? The main thing is progress. And so I just brush your teeth. Don't you? Yeah, but that's not a kid. Like nobody is simulating my tabs, okay? Nobody is looking at my tabs. Only me. But you'd have that refresh problem less if you had less tabs. I don't think so. Well, I suppose just by sure numbers. Nick agrees. He's nodding his head. I have like five tabs open. And if I get beyond that, I'm like, this is too much. I have to close them. That's pretty cleanly. Let me see. I'm going to get a count here. We're all counting tabs. I'm sitting on 27 tabs. Okay, wait. L phone. Yeah. Nick was probably exaggerating. 498. So you're under the... Oh my gosh. I'm at 17. No, 19 on the phone. Okay. So five was a lie. A bold face lie. Straight up scroll forever. On the desktop. I'm thinking the desktop. Oh, yeah. My desktop's pretty clean. Yeah. So what is it on the desktop? Is it similar? No, zero. Okay. Zero tabs? Well, yeah. I mean, I have a browser open. My computer's right there. It's not even open. Well, if it was open, how many tabs would it have in it? As many as necessary for the moment. I'm the present. So you do maintain your... Oh, yeah. It's an iOS issue. And so I think the cool feature with Safari on iOS is that when you start typing in an address, it will go to the tab that instead of going to it new with a new tab, it'll say open in existing tab. And so I do that a lot.

It

does do that. And that's really nice. Yeah. And so I might have something open. I mean, that's not really a good feature really, in my opinion. I mean, it's just helpful to not open one more tab, but I just haven't gone back and closed things. There's research I'm doing that I just have forgotten about. And so maybe I'll go back and do a garbage collection, right, and be like, okay, is this really garbage? You need a mark and sweep. You need a mark and sweep that. Are you... For sure. Let me ask you another potentially personal question. Yeah. Go deep. How many unread emails are in your inbox right now? Oh, a lot. Yeah. Okay. I can tell. I am constantly at inbox zero. I'm also an inbox zero guy. Because if there's something there, I just like randomly, throughout the day, I'll just like highlight all, archive. If I need it, it's there. I can go back. And I've seen them out. I am not an inbox zero guy. I am an inbox red guy and archive as necessary. I archive a lot, but we get so many emails, I just can't keep up with it. So I feel like I've sort of just given up with having to maintain email. I mean, it's just such a, it's a drain on humanity. Have you ever declared bankruptcy and started over? But you still have? At least once a year. You at least have the badge hidden, right? Twice a year. Once a year, I'll do it. Yeah. What's your badge say? Like unread or... Yeah. Thousands. How do you deal with that? Isn't that just anxiety? Yeah. What's on top? That's it. That's all that matters. Yeah, but the badge is staring at you with a thousand unread. Oh, I don't pay attention to that badge. Wouldn't it be nice if like you looked at your phone and it said two and you're like, I have two new emails. I feel special. Oh, I don't let... Do you maintain an unread count in your head? Like, well, it used to be 1 ,274, but now I see it's 1 ,276. So there's two new emails. You're just constantly doing diffs in your head? Nope. I don't even... So I actually hide that red orb from those things. So no badge cap on iOS. So he's in denial. He's in denial. If I don't look at it, it'll go away. That's right. I've seen it. It's new to me. It's not a problem, really. If it works for you, it works for you. It's true. Until you get to 500 tabs, then it doesn't work for you anymore. Well, I agree. It's not ideal. I do need to garbage collect and move things to somewhere else. Obsidian. I mean, that's where I organize. Obsidian is a huge help to, like, if I have a thought or a note to take, that's Obsidian every single time. It's so fast. It's obviously markdown. Obsidian is a lifesaver. I'm kind of like not cool with like all their new stuff they're doing. I'm worried they'll get the notion level with like adding so much stuff into Obsidian. That's a good thing. Well, I'm a little concerned. Let's talk about that. What are they adding? It's a low level concern, not a big level concern in the fact that they might be influenced. Now, I'm not a big fan of Notion necessarily. We recently downgraded to a free plan because we don't even use it anymore and we were paying for it like a couple, like probably 20, 40 bucks a month and I'm like, this is just stupid. We can't do this anymore because we're not using it actively. There's some information that's still in there that we keep and we'll pull out eventually, but I think Notion just got, it's a really helpful tool for some people and I think it's awesome for people who can really find workflows for it, but I feel it's just so cumbersome and the proprietary black box of database in there. In particular, we maintained a sponsorship schedule that I wanted to pull out a small slice and share with a sponsor. So create a page, pull out some of the data from our big mass of our table and pull that data over to a page that shared with them. Can't do it. Can't do it. And so it's just so internal focused, not collaborative focused. You can have guests, but even that, I couldn't share a sliver of guest data that was their data in this big table. And so, you know, I think it's a great tool. If they would have had that one feature, maybe I'd stay, you know, maybe, but it was kind of like I said before, it was fast. And then after I said it was fast, it started to be slow. It never felt fast for me. That was my biggest gripe. I mean, the fact that it's, it's a black box proprietary thing and it doesn't, your data's locked in there and it's locked in there. And we, you know, two of the three of us just flew here. It has no offline support years into its life cycle. That's not very useful, but the new features that have been added to notion or to Obsidian, at least like, like the main one that is like going against the markdown thing is their canvas feature where you can like drag and drop notes and you can put post -its and draw lines between notes and all of that. It's obviously not markdown, but it is a very readable JSON file that you could probably do something with if you needed to. I've only used that once. It's cool because you can also completely ignore all the stuff. Yes. I think the bigger problem with Obsidian though is the, there's so much reliance on plugins and there are fantastic plugins in there, but you're relying on all of these third party devs who like, like for example, the calendar plugin, it broke for me and I had to like completely uninstall it and reinstall it. And that's like, it's relied upon by like periodic notes and like these other plugins, you know, and I went and looked and I'm like, why did this break? I have no idea. This plugin has not been touched in three years and it's like a pivotal plugin. Like yeah. So that like the, the rot of plugins and like the proprietary nature of like, oh, I'm going to build this, you know, data view thing, which is like a SQL type thing. That's a third party thing. And if they stop supporting that at some point, like I've got all these notes with this. That's kind of where I keep my, it's not a dashboard for me. It's just more like my thinking, you know, notes, thinking, sponsored data is in there. Like what reads

everything,

you know, all the stuff. I just keep it simple. I focus on tags to get around titling and I love the search features like command open or commando just to get to whatever and start searching for things. Yeah, I use it all the time. That's super good for me. You mentioned being super organized with it. Are you actually like meticulously organizing within Obsidian? I'm not. Yeah, me neither. I do have some followers, like you can keyword search. I'm good with that, but that's about it. I'm the same. Foldering a little bit. Yeah. It's so hard to keep it organized and I like get really like distraught with like how unorganized it all is. It's almost better just to be flat though. No directories, right? Like just flat. I like the daily note

where

you just hit today and you have a new note for the date stamp on it and that's why I do all my scratch writing and just whatever. And I then take that and I like to have that organized by the actual like folders of the year and all that kind of stuff. I think you said you've automated that at some point. I bought a what? You automated like moving stuff into. Oh yeah. How do I do that? Uh, so I have it just through the daily note plugin or the periodic notes plugin. It automatically like sorts those into like a 2024 folder and then a January folder and then a week one folder. So there's a plugin called periodic notes that moves those for you. When I create a new one, it just automatically follows some. Now there's a built in daily note already. Yes. This is, this is additional to that? This is slightly better because there's daily notes and this one will do weekly notes, monthly notes, quarterly notes, yearly notes, and so I can just push a button to go to my quarterly note for this quarter. It's just organizing them for you though or is it actually like a whole new part of the UI? Uh, it's, you turn off the daily notes plugin and you use the... There is

no

plugin. Oh, where's the plugin? It's a, it's a core plugin. That's just built into Obsidian. Right. What is the difference between a daily and a quarterly? Like what's a quarterly note to you versus a daily note? So like I would have a first quarter 2024 note right now and if I needed to add stuff to that, I more use that as like a dashboard where I'm like taking, you know, summaries of weeks or months and putting it in there. The goal is like, Oh, I can look at this quarter and say, I accomplished all of this in this quarter, but I have to be diligent enough to actually like get it in in a way that it'll filter up to that. But that's the idea at least. What do you, uh, give us a glimpse behind the scenes of like, what are you organizing? Personal career, work, ideas. What do you got? What do you got? Fun employment. Fun employment. Yeah. I traditionally keep everything in one vault because I want to, I want to do the backlinks between everything, but I do actually, I use a Mac tool called Hazel that can watch the folder and like based on the names of things, move stuff, move stuff. Yeah. So I'll move things from like, you know, I'll just throw everything in the, in the root and then if it detects, Oh, this is actually, you know, a work note, it moves it to the work note folder so that if I ever needed to, I could just take that and make it its own vault later. But right now they're all kind of put together. Okay. But the, the big thing that I'm looking into right now, like with this having no organization, I want to continue that. But I want to look at like local LLMs as a way to like train it on that so that all I have to do is talk to my notes. I take notes and then I don't ever look at the notes. I talk to them and they talk back to me

that

I think that's the true future, but I want it to be all local. I don't want to be like sending all of my notes to open AI or whatever. That's totally doable. I think that's cool. I'm such a non power user. I don't do any of this stuff. Really? I mean, I opened up a new note and I write into it. That's it. And then I command O, I command T, I command N and I hit the today note thing. The most important thing though, do you look at your, for me it's a markdown editor. No, you don't look, you don't look at your constellation. Me either. Nah. Do you like project yours on the ceiling above your bed? Yes, I do. I project it on my child's ceiling at night. Look at what daddy did today, that little constellation. I think for me though, the killer feature, I suppose with it is not really a feature. It's more of a usage has been, I've gotten into home lab stuff. So building Ubuntu servers and like building out ZFS storage systems and all these different things that require like repeatable steps. So I've automated future Adam by docs, my own docs. So like I have my own docs. If I need to stand up a new thing or a new way, whatever it is, I'm going to my own docs and doing the things from my docs for myself. You know, I think that's just notes though. That's not a feature. It's like you like it cause your notes are in there. Sure. But like I suppose like

what

did you have before? Just like a directory you put markdown files in before. I suppose it's the same thing basically, but it provides that UI. That's why I like it. It's literally the same thing. No, I know. But I mean, it's got, you can copy code snippets out of it, you know, it's got helpful features as a UI that isn't just,

you

know, markdown docs. It's copy paste, you know, pros, you've got codes snippets in there and stuff like that. So sure. But it's helped me organize it better. Whereas before it was like, where do I take notes in notion? No. Google doc, not for, not for code, right? Like it's just not that good at it. Notes .app? Notes .app. I got a lot of notes in notes .app. Sure. But like, can you copy code out of that pretty easily? You can, you can copy and paste, but you can't click to copy, right? There's a lot of features that are a part of Obsidian that have helped me make my own docs is all I'm saying. I can't, I'm not a user of WYSIWYG. I just like the notes app. I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do it. If you use it as plain text, it's fine. But yeah, once you get more fancy, I mean, that's why I like Obsidian as well. I like to have a better editor around plain text things. My favorite new feature is the fact that they have table support now. It's markdown tables, but it's just easier to write them than the difficulty of writing markdown tables. And you can copy paste them. You can say like add new column and it's going to go ahead and just generate that text for me. That's awesome. Those are the kinds of features that I want. I don't want any of the other features, so, but I don't have any plugins. I don't even, I've never looked at the plugins directory.

How

many you got? I don't want to say. Oh gosh. 500? I'll just, I'll give you an accurate. Yeah, I'm the same. I have no plugins. Yeah, same. Just give me a, that's why I'm trying to say like, don't ruin Obsidian by making it too powerful in terms of its feature set. Just keep it

opt

in. I suppose. Better than I thought. I have a modest 40 plugins. 40? 40. Gosh. We both say. That's less than NeoVim probably. Uh, yeah. It's less than half of

NeoVim.

So how do you find these plugins? How do you manage them? No wonder you're so concerned about third party developers. Yes. Yes. I, a lot of my workflow is based upon that, about, upon third party. So do you imagine something and then say there's gotta be a plugin for that or do you just, you know, when you're going to the bathroom, you're going to like scroll on your phone. You're thinking, I'll just check the plugin directory. Uh, yeah, I, you know, I'm, I'm a tools guy. I like, I like, uh, I know we know that, but thinking about my tools, I watch videos on it. I'm like the Obsidian just came out with like their top list of, you know, this is our 2023 best plugin, best theme, whatever. And you'll go read that. You'll download each one of those and try it. I looked at him at least and I was like, Oh, that, that is kind of cool. You know, the one, the main one that I got out of that was like one called folder notes. So if you do use folders, I have some folders in there. You can set like, when I click on this folder, this is the note that opens so that I can have like a, you know, a work dashboard and I can just click on the folder and I see that it's like really simple. Oh, he's downloading it. No, my wife is texting me. Oh, sorry. How rude.

No,

this is drawing content. That's why ironically to that moment I was into this and I was thinking you should do some curation. You should be like the Obsidian plugin guy, you know, like there's so many of those though, aren't there? Yeah, I'm sure there is. Top 12 plugins you must have as a dev. I have a very low set of, I would entertain a well maintained dashboard plugin. I would, I would entertain that. Yeah. Because I desire that. I don't desire it in another tool. I'm in Obsidian. Like it's always open, right? It's always there. The moment I have an idea, like a new, a new doc has created, you know, or if I'm having a conversation, the notes are there, right? I wouldn't mind a dashboard that helps me. And I don't even dislike your idea of the daily, quarterly, yearly notes idea too, but I don't want to support a plugin to do it or have the lack of support with it not being created. Have you written any of your own plugins? I have dabbled with it. Yes. Uh, I have one, I haven't released it, but it's, it just parses your markdown and looks for a pattern like GH colon and then, you know, one, two, three, four, and it's configured for my repo from like my work repo to say, oh, that's a, that'll automatically just insert a link and it'll give you the status of like whether that PR is closed or you know, whatever. Nice. And you write all that in pure JavaScript or what? Pure TypeScript, baby. All right, that's cool. Let's talk about the idea of Obsidian supporting the plugins. So I know they have the core plugins and let's say there's a very popular plugin out there that is less than maintained or could be better. Do you think it would be wise of them to begin to like offer some support to the developers that are building that ecosystem? Like what are your thoughts on how they can support it? Not so much take it over and make it theirs. Like, what are your thoughts on

that

for them? I think that that would be a good, a good idea. Like because that's, that's the draw, especially like it's what makes it a powerful thing beyond just a blank notes editor, right? It's being able to extend it and, oh, I see this cool feature in Obsidian or in Notion. Well, somebody might've brought it over to Obsidian and see how to play with it. So they should do that. I think, I don't know for sure, but I, what I've seen in the past is like cool plugins. They're no stranger to just doing the Apple Sherlocking of those plugins. So like one was admonitions, you know, being able to add like a, a call out in your notes. That's a plugin. Now it's part of it. And they changed the syntax, which is kind of annoying. What's in it? What do you mean? A call out. Like putting a call out in your notes. So I can say like, this is important or warning or whatever, and yeah, have it in there. Is that markdown or yeah, it's marked down, but it's a weird, it's like a quote with a square brackets around what type of admonition it is. And then all of that and everything inside of the, like the quotes with the greater than signs on the left. That's that would be an admonition. Can't you just like go pound pound and make it an H2 and now it's big. Well, yeah, but then it's an H2. I want it. That'll show up in an outline like as an H2. Yeah, I use the outline plugin. Well, I guess that's the fault. It's in there. Right. The outline option. It's on the right hand side and the little sidebar. I love that. I mean, especially for large docs where you want to scroll it, you could jump to places. That's so helpful. The outline. And I agree. Like you'd want it as a call out, not as an H2 because it would show up in that hierarchy and it's, you want it to be within an H2, not an H2. Have a bold example. I just use, I actually do command B and it puts the stars, I can never remember because Slack is like the one that's like the opposite. Slack ruined it. Well they do. What's theirs? Oh, they don't support markdown syntax highlighting. They support like their own little close to, but not close enough. Yeah. I think in normal markdown it's two asterisks on each side, but in Slack it's one. And so then I mix up which one is which. Right. But one asterisk is technically italic, which is also one underscore,

which

maybe that's a problem with markdown is they had too many ways of italicizing. Potentially. So there's one idea is could there be usage based sharing, profit sharing to a plugin developer? So kind of like same way you pay for usage based services, maybe it's usage based revenue to them because there's not many installs. I'm thinking like, how could they do that? But I think that's one idea. But then I'm thinking, well,

how

do they actually make money? And I think the main way they meet money is from their sync, right? I would actually love to have my own obsidian sync server in my home lab because what does it really take to like synchronize? I've only got like a couple, like my iOS and my desktop. It's not like 50 people. I suppose at that point maybe it gets more complex, but I'd love to run my own sync server and like skip the 10 bucks a month, right? Because I've got a server at home. I can spin up a Docker container and I've got plenty of resources and RAM and CPU. Are you using sync? I am. I signed up early enough that I get it for half price. For life, I think. I hope. For life. Wow. For life or until they change their mind, whichever comes first. He's one up in us here. Okay. But I do also, like I'm comfortable with it because like you have to provide an encryption key. That's true. So I know that they're encrypted going up to their server. That is true. That's a really good point. It is very secure in the way it does it. You have to have that key to decrypt it. And they warn you plenty. Couldn't you do that in a Docker container though? Like on your own? I mean, I mean, I don't mind paying them 10 bucks a month, but like that's a lot over years. It is. I would rather just pay them. That seems like a poor way to pay them is what I'm trying to say. I feel like that's something they can skip. Well they should just improve that I think. Like they're working right now on more features, you know, they're working on better, like actually being able to collaborate better between like right now I share a vault with somebody and we can both be in there editing the same document and it works, but it's like he types something and then like five seconds later it shows up on my screen. So it's not like Google Docs real time if they added something more like that and made it because that's like a powerful feature of Notion too is we can collaborate and we can be in the same thing and just do it. And it's all going to be there and it's going to be fine. And maybe even like an adoption strategy for them could be to open source what is a basic sync server, right? And then the paid version is, okay, you can't host this thing. Maybe you can do an on -prem version of it too. Maybe it's just a password version of a Docker hub that you pull a different Docker container for example. But I wouldn't mind

like

a free version because everyone can use it, right? Not for 10 bucks a month, but the ones who need this collaborative feature, which I think is super cool, would pay the 10 bucks a month. Sure. Like another cool thing though is because a vault is just a folder of markdown files, like you can throw that in Dropbox or you can throw it in Google or iCloud drive. That's what I do. And then it's synced and there's even a plugin that will... But the iOS app won't use it, right?

Yeah.

I can't remember how that works. I've just been pampered with the sync. I just don't use it on iOS. Well, and that's another thing. Their iOS is lacking. What an absolute shame. Legit. Like, I mean to have your brain not with you basically. It's like leaving your head at home. It might be for me. I don't put my brain in there. I just put my scratch and my documents in there. What I tend to do is on iOS, I use an app called Drafts. And that's like a second area where I can do like culling of things, like, oh, that's meaningless. That was a one -time thing. Right. And try and like make it so that only important things actually show up in Obsidian. See, I think

I

wanted to have a place where I could just like one place to put everything, no matter if it's meaningless or meaningful. Because sometimes things are meaningless in the moment, but become meaningful over time. Because you're like, wow, what was that thing again? And if it's in the ephemeral and it goes away, then you don't have that to call back on. So I feel like just throw everything in there. It's just text. Who cares, right? It's a small directory. Maybe a couple of megs at this point for me. I don't even know. And they give you, with the sync, they give you 50 gigs, I think. I'll never fill that up with text. If you have 50 gigs of text. Let me elevate this conversation slightly. Let me go up a level. Please do. Is there no value in ephemeral? Is there nothing worth forgetting? Does everything have to be remembered all the time to be worth anything? That's just too deep, man. See, I think that that's where a locally trained LLM comes into play. Let it decide later. Yes, good answer, Nick. Let it decide what's worth keeping and what's worth forgetting? Let my notes decide. If it needs to tell me, it's trained on it and it can tell me. Do you not appreciate your agency in life? I know that I have no agency. All right. Eyes wide open. You don't know if you have agency? He knows he has no agency. Oh, you know. Okay. So you've given up?

Yeah, I've given up.

Wow. He's just a vessel through which the computers can do whatever they want to. So, if they ever do bear arms against us, look out for Nick. He's coming for you. Right.

I have to say that. I have to come out on their side because I know where I'm coming with that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's already staking his claim. You have to be on their side. I've been saying that for years. I agree. Chad GPT has revealed things to me. And if you're a Silicon Valley fan, like I think you are, then have you watched season six of Silicon Valley? Have you watched the whole thing? Oh, gosh. Then you're with me then, right? What's in the bag? Cliff bar and a gun, right? Best line ever from Guilfoyle. He's like, how should I be feeling? Adject error for you. Like the best one liners, right? Yeah. The last episode was phenomenal. Anyways, I'm with you though. Like if there's an uprising with AI, I was for you. Okay. I was for you. It's coming. I'm going to make a stand. I'm going to go down with the humans. On our recent episode, you were all declaring how you were a humanist and stuff. Now look at you. That's true. Just on the other side, showing your true colors. I appreciate you pulling out my contradiction there. I am a humanist until there's something better. Until it's expedient not to be. Yeah. I suppose I have hope. I'm making a stand. I'm pulling the plug at some point. Well, we are in Texas and you kind of have to be for a stand in Texas, right? That's true. This is where he makes stands in the world. I don't see it as a threat right now. I don't know. That's what you have to say. You're already taken. That's true. I do like your idea of an LLM, trained on this, whatever my vault is. I agree with that. I think that is actually a really... You could do that today with O 'Lama or stuff. Have you tried it? Or just waiting? I just haven't had time. When you do, let me know. When are you going to have time? I mean... You think right now. That's what I was thinking. You know he's fun employed for the moment. He's going to... When do you start? Tomorrow. Next Monday. Oh, okay. So very much time left. He's like, I got to go. I got to go train this model. Three days. Wednesday through Friday, I can get this LLM train. The problem is I'm so centrally focused. I've got to talk tomorrow at this conference. That's true. I can't do anything until that is done. Fair. I feel you on that. Way on the plane ride home. Well, you think eventually that'll just be a plug -in, right? There are plug -ins. Oh, okay. I was looking at one specifically because it was in the best of 2023 list or whatever. But it was one where you give it an open AI key and then it does something to... That's all through open AI, but there's so many models you can download and have on your machine now. I know. I'm this close to trading convenience for security. I'm always walking that line. I was going to say, you should have just plugged your open AI key in there and be done with it. Well, then you're also giving them all that data too, right? Which is... But he has no agency. That's true. The resistance is huge. No, I think it wouldn't be very hard to get that one set up locally and be the plug -in author, man. Be the guy. There we go. Who leads the way to the local. What's required for it? Like roughly? Python, I think. So I'm out. No wonder. Hey, I wrote some Python last week because of the exact same reason and I enjoyed it. I like Python. I've written 30 lines of Python in my life, I think. It was for a Raspberry Pi to control the breadboard, to control a camera, to take pictures. I made a wedding photo booth thing and I wrote 30 lines of Python. And did you enjoy it? It worked. Significant white space, man. Just indent that sucker. Who needs curly braces? I do like their syntax for imports. I wish JavaScript would have taken that. It is nice. All right. Well, Python killed the vibe. As it always does. Should we call it or should we let Nick talk about TypeScript for a few minutes? Let's call it. Let's call it. Let's crack his fingers. Give us one minute of exactly why you love TypeScript. Oh, man. No, this show's over. This show's over. He was. Go ahead, Nick. We'll give you a minute. I just love that Jared doesn't like it. I knew that was the reason. In the talk today, Shonda was like, you see this? A superset is like all of that, but better. And I just leaned over to Jared and whispered TypeScript. I bet you did. He did. And then Jared left the room. I literally... He's like, I'm out of here. Well, I already have my five -year -old response to that. I say superset more like pooper set. Get it? Poop? TypeScript? Oh, okay. Yeah, sure. It's pooper? Sure. And that's why I leave the room because I'm not five anymore. But you said it and then left. True. It was a mic drop. I came out here to find the mic so I could drop one real quick. That's right. Well, appreciate you telling us about TypeScript right at the end there. That was a pretty concise reason to use it. I'm sure that'll be good. It's literally the only reason. If you don't like Jared Santo, you should like TypeScript. But if you do like Jared Santo, then use TypeScript. You want me to make a commercial for Changelog right now? I can do that. Yeah, man. Like, with that. Just saying that. Come to JS Party. And if you don't like TypeScript... If you don't like Jared, then we'll, I don't know, we'll rename it to TS Party. I already generated the logo for it. He did. It's a C plus logo. Ugh. Hey, friends. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Cenadia. Cenadia is helping teams take NATS to the next level via a global, multi -cloud, multi -geo, and extensible service fully managed by Cenadia. They take care of all the infrastructure, management, monitoring, and maintenance for you so you can focus on building exceptional distributed applications. And I'm here with VP of Product and Engineering Byron Ruth and David Gee, Director of Product Strategy. So when you think about connectivity being the first thing to consider, someone pushed back on this and say, we'll think about it later. What competes with a mindshare of

connectivity? Just like an HTTP developer, you actually just download and run the NAT server. Whereas an HTTP developer, if you're building an HTTP set of endpoints, you typically have to implement or use an HTTP library. And then whether it's a Go standard library, Python, whatever it is, and you're actually implementing endpoints that register into the HTTP server. And then now you have to go deploy this HTTP server and ensure that it's performant. So it's a slightly different model, but you download the NAT server. It's a standalone binary. It runs on the majority of platforms. And then you have a handful of client SDKs across all the major languages. You download that, and we even have a higher level API that is akin to what HTTP developers have of defining a handler, for example. We just call it our services API. And you basically have a few boilerplate things that you register your handler in the NAT's context. And out of the box, it actually supports sort of a general request -reply setup. And then you get all of these other benefits out of the gate. But the experience and the onboarding is arguably just as simple as any other HTTP onboarding, with the exception that you're technically deploying a client application that implements these NAT services in addition to the NAT server. But that's where the Cine Cloud, it's already a managed instance. And we even have the demo server for you to just try it out. It's a public endpoint that you can literally connect to. So you can still build a simple client application, use the demo server as the endpoint, and then you can play with that and use that as sort of the server deployment.

Well, if we talk about it just from the central view of applications for networking and all that kind of packet -based stuff,

you were calling them HTTP developers, which kind of stork instead of API devs. I mean, what do people do? They glue it together at a

primitive level. So the primitive being HTTP. They move up the stack in their mind's eye and they go, oh, we're going to do some GRPC, which is kind of still point to point. So it's a lot of point to point stuff versus broker -assisted connectivity, which is

way simpler. You connect to an endpoint, you get told about other endpoints. It's like connecting to a hive mind. What we're trying to do is move people away from coordinated point

to point connectivity to easy connect to anything securely and connect to your other stuff securely, instead of having to coordinate the whole rat's nest of where to connect to them. Then you've got to negotiate, well, what do we do then? Now we've got to get the schema information and can we even connect to this thing? And does it even work? And what version is it and all this stuff? What we're trying to do is transform that and flip that to unify it to make it much simpler. So I think we're trying to go from a rat's nest of point to point connectivity in the application space to making everything on net.

And it's like connecting to a hive mind. And what we're kind of asking

people to do is think about applications the same way you would video conferencing. So if me and Byron are going to have a chat, we might do a huddle on Slack or jump on a Zoom or something. But if we want a colleague to join, we ask them to join the same course. We can have a point to point conversation by the same medium or we can have a party line by

the same medium. So, you know, it's request, reply or pubs up, but it's on the same platform. We don't care about what Zoom server we connect to. We join, we connect to the service and we coordinate our communications over the fabric.

There you go. Yesterday's tech is not cutting it. Nats powered by the global multi cloud, multi geo and extensible service fully managed by Cinedia is the way of the future. Learn more at cinedia .com slash changelog. That's S Y N A D I A dot com slash changelog. All right, here comes Amy Dutton. changelog plus plus listeners probably recall Amy's voice because she was on our pre party to a feud, which was a changelog plus plus exclusive episode. A few weeks back, Amy played an epic game of front end feud with us on stage the night prior to this conversation. Sadly, that one wasn't recorded, but those in the audience enjoyed a back and forth battle that came down to the final round when Amy's teammate, Josh Madeski, pulled out Thunderbird for the win. It was pretty amazing. You had to be there. I wish you were. OK, here's Amy. So I need to hear about the tab game. Oh, yes. Tab, open tabs and own domain. Those are my two plans. You have a lot of open tabs. Oh, yes. You have a lot of own domain. Yes. And I'm wondering who's got more of which. And I know his number

of

open tabs, open tabs in the browser window. Hard. It's hard to count. It's hard to count what tabs? Tabs. OK, there's so many of them. Well, he's got a trick to it. You want to tell him the trick? IOS tells you. Oh, does it? Oh, yeah. Or are you like, even if you're using Chrome or like another browser, I don't do that. What's Chrome? What's Chrome? What's what other options are there? I mean, on my phone. Yeah, it's Safari only. Well, I still use Arc. I still use Arc on my phone. You can't do that. Yeah. And they just released Arc search. I heard about it. I got the email, but I didn't look at it. I saw it. I haven't tried it. I downloaded it. I'm like, I'm ready to go. What's it supposed to be? Like AI search. So you would ask it a question. I'm assuming this is what it is. So, you know, take this all with a grain of salt. But in December, the CEO released a video of things that they were planning. And one of the things was like, you just type in whatever topic. And like, if you go to Google, a lot of times you're just going to click through the first five options. Right. Anyways. And so he's like, why do all that? Why not just have Arc load those first five options into your tabs and then you can go through what you're looking for. So is that sans ads? I mean, you're getting around Google sponsored stuff, so unless like Arc is going to, unless Arc's going to try and advertise those things, I tell you what fascinates me about the browser company in general and just what they're doing is how they do their releases because they'll highlight this developer did this feature and they'll create a video and highlight that person. And so from like a, I don't, I guess, I don't know if they're open source, but from somebody that's coding and contributing to a larger code base, that's really intriguing to me to humanize. Yeah. To have a name to it. Yeah, exactly. I've seen some of their streams, like release streams, and I'm very surprised and delighted, I guess. Happy for them. How many people watch those and participate? I'm sure it has to do with like the community stuff that they're doing. They've got a community thing going on over there. That's like, well, they got some, they got a head of steam, so to speak. I was hating on them just for fun, really. I actually like all browser competition. I welcome it because it's not really competition. Well, I think it is. I mean, it could be long term, like if they create steam and

get

adoption with devs and that transcends to mainstream, that's, that's how Firefox began, right? Firefox began as a grassroots, like some of our early roots as developers, I'm not sure about yours, but like early roots was like, get Firefox, you know, and the tabs was a revolutionary at the time. So the extensions they had. So, I mean, for now, maybe not so much competition because Google has such a market share with Chrome and yes, I know what Chrome is

just

to close all these loops here. Thank you for clarifying. I was just hating. As a podcast, you have to, for fun, hate sometimes just to make it more entertaining. Let's get back to my game here. So Amy owns a lot of domains. Adam has a lot of open tabs. I will tell you, he has hit the 500 tab limit. IOS has a 500 tab limit, which I didn't know about. And I didn't either until I was like, new tab. No. And, uh, how do you find what you're looking for? A new tab search, put it in, move along. Yeah, he always opens a new tab every time. Yeah. Well, so I feel like Arc is revolutionized. My tab is only on iOS. This is not desktop. My desktop is zero. Yes, I got it both. So you like the tabs over there. Yeah. I mean, it's great cause you create these spaces. And so I have stuff for like redwood. I have a redwood space that has all my redwood tabs in it and I can

stick

everything there. It just makes it easier to find what I'm looking for. You can manage your tabs a little better maybe. I should honestly, but I just don't. Why?

Cause I don't have time for that. It's not a priority. And I would organize it for you. I don't need to. Well, I suppose if it did, that'd be cool. Yeah,

but I don't need to. So I just move along

bigger, bigger fish.

Climbing different Hills, you know, that kind of thing. So then the bigger question is how many domains do you own? Do I have to give a number? I kind of like leaving it. Are you honestly embarrassed by it? Maybe a little, just because of how many, I mean, I will share. It's fine. Just like they're unused. I feel like, Oh, I got this great idea. But it's the first thing you do. You go buy the domain for it. And then it's, I think part of it is

like

not wanting to let go of that domain. Cause you kind of have to have a conversation with yourself. You have to admit to yourself, it's not going to happen. I'm not going to, it's not going to happen. I'm just going to let this idea die. I can empathize. So you can just say a more or less than Adam's tabs. That's all we need to know. Oh, less, less. Okay. Thank goodness. Is it

more

than 50, less than a hundred. Let's narrow it in. More than both of those numbers. More than both, less than 200. This is a binary search. This is all right. We find a range then. So it's actually about halfway. It's about 150. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We have some domains that I, that we keep holding onto as well. And I like, every time I see the renewal, I'm like, do we really need that? Yeah. And I've slowly gotten rid of some over the years. You get rid of any, do you? Yeah, I do. I got rid of some this,

this

year. Think about the financial burden. I know. And that's the thing. It's like 15, if you say like $10, yeah, maybe a little more. That's like $1 ,500 to $2 ,000 a year in domain names, which that's the embarrassing part. And cause I mean, that's just, that's year over a year,

you

know? Well, it shows that you have a lot of ideas. Yeah. Well, and that's a problem.

How

do you pick one? That's actually not the problem. That's a good thing, I think, because you can have, of the many domains we've owned, this one succeeded. Yeah. Right. Change all the comments. It's we purchased that. We actually owned the change log .com. We did the Facebook move. And then we had to drop the

only

in domain, obviously you see behind us. It says the change log. And we bought the domain from somebody else for a grand for $1 ,000. I've never paid more than $10 for a single domain. Well, I take that back. I've paid more. I've paid whatever that base price is. I haven't done right. So

here

you go. Trivia question. What is the most expensive domain that I own? Oh, that you own? Like what's the most expensive TLD? Okay. The yearly or you mean the initial price? The annual. Okay. Like 150. That's where I'm going. What's the TLD? Yeah, I'll tell you how much it was. This is a good, this is a good one. So I know dot FMS are expensive. 90 bucks a year. Are they 90? Yeah. That's why I'm like scrutinizing our domains. We got a lot of dot FMS. We got a lot of vanities that just redirects. Dot dev is like 30 bucks a year or something like that. I don't know. That sound right?

What's

that? I said survey says. Oh, you're playing my own game of density.

Well,

I think about 90 bucks is probably your limit. I don't you think? So I think maybe is. It is dot FM. So we have compressed dot FM

and

that is the most expensive. That one's worth it though. I think it's like 76. Right. Maybe it is 90 or it depends on who you have it with. Or is it 89 with hover? We use hover. There was a new one I was looking at and I was like, this would be cool. And it was like 150 bucks a year. Can't remember what it was. Yeah, I lost it, but yeah, but it's worth it because you're actually using it. Right? Yes, that is true. That is just like all of our vanity domains are worth it because they use them. I recently acquired a domain hopeful, hopeful .com. No, not hopeful, hopeful that someday it will pay off. Yeah. And the initial year was higher than its renewal because it was like a vanity one or like a, like a prize one. A new one. Yeah. And I will tell you the domain right now. Okay. It is home lab. Dot tech. And that's a good home lab. Dot tech. Yeah. I got an idea I've been incubating without telling you that I think you're going to love. Hopefully.

This

is another good one. My most recent purchase. Good looking email

and

I think I got dot com and dot email. Good looking dot email. So here's one that I want to get, but I can't get our hands on is change log dot news. Yes. Somebody is holding onto that sucker and I can't get ahold of them.

They're

not using it. We have a show called change log news and a newsletter. That'd be great to have change log dot news, but now it's change dot com slash news. Got to get that slash out of there. I mean, that's the other part. How you rack up on them is when you have the redirects, like I mentioned good looking email dot com and good looking dot email just to make sure that. Right. So how do you feel about subdomains? Cause there's a lot of people are like, Hey, if you got a new idea, have your own website, not the duttons dot com. That's not yours, Amy. That's somebody else at the same name.

That is true.

Uh, is it self teach dot me or you have, okay, well I guess that that was good. I remember that you're impressed. Like that's branding question that I have, like always going on in the back of my I remember that your online handle will self teach me and I remember it. Nobody can remember that. That's the problem. So it's like, do you go, it's self teach me and actually this is interesting. How I acquired that domain was I was looking for something else and hover will recommend domains and it was one of the recommended and I was like, yes. And so I bought it. Yeah, they did. They sure does. Like that's why they have that feature. We have an ongoing joke in my house. If my wife goes to Costco, they suddenly just put all the bedsheets into the end aisle, the end caps. Yeah. Cause my wife loves to buy bedsheets. Really? Well, not anymore. Cause I've disallowed it at this point. Like we just have enough babe. Okay. But it's an ongoing joke. Like I'm like, babe, they see you coming. It's kind of like they saw you come with that. Amy will buy it. Yes. So a lot of people will say you have a new idea. Maybe it's a good looking email and instead of going out and registering that domain, two of them, yeah. Good looking email dot self teach on me. Right. And so now you have a place for that on the web and you can build the thing and then if it's good and it takes off and you're like, you know what? It deserves its own domain. Yeah. Have you ever considered that? Well, here's the thing. Is somebody going to say like, Oh, change log news already exists. I'm just going to go ahead and buy the domain and squad on it until that person. It's a squatter problem. Well, and I worked one time with a very shady client that that's what he would do is he would, yeah, he would buy up domain names that were like people's names, like up and comer politicians and things like that, that he thought could go on to do big things that would want to vanity URL. And so he would buy that. I know. Part of me thinks that's not cool, but the other part of me thinks of that, like, isn't it online real estate and isn't it smart to just buy a piece of property to hold it because you think it's going to go up in value and sell it later? I say yes. So long as you're willing to sell it. True. Well, if you would reach out to those people, you can't be reached, like change all that news. Like that's not cool. That's the other thing is like, well, I guess we now have tooling where you can be like comparable domain prices,

but

some people are unreasonable. And so he would reach out to that person and be like, so I have this domain. I'll sell it to you. So, and he, uh, in a way he's reserved it on their behalf and is willing to give it to the correct person. And there's a fee for that. I get that. I mean, that's an enterprising person. It's true. I think it's the right word. It's true, but

not

cool. Right. Yeah. Like you can't really blame him, but you're kind of like, but I don't like you. I'm not enjoying this process, but thank you. You were smart, but I don't like you. Okay. So, okay. It's about the squatter problem. Not so much because it seems like the problem is I have ideas.

I

don't actually build them and now I've got domains, but really the domain has to happen right away because you don't want someone to steal that in case you do actually build it. Well, and naming, naming stuff is hard. That was one of the things you said last night. I've gotten to the point though, where I'm like more no than yes. Right. Like to simplify things. And so I can empathize with the buying, but then I'm like, let me just wait to see if I really get motivated to do it and then, you know, but there was really, in my case with home lab, there was nothing that seemed so perfect other than one other domain, which I did not buy yet. Cause I feel like that just doesn't make any sense. I was also hopeful that our friends at dot tech would just reimburse me via sponsorship because we worked with them before and I told them about that. And so that's, I'm sure if we, did they say no, no, they said yes. They said next time you sponsor, we'll make sure it happens. Oh, okay. So they plan to come back and I like dot tech. It's a cool, neon dot tech. That's one of our partners. Yeah, that's a great product. Dot tech does fit in a lot of places. It's not a dot com obviously. And it's not a dot IO, which actually is not that good. It's certainly a dot net, which is not that good. I mean, in comparison, right? Dot net versus dot tech. Well, dot tech is, I think it's as close as you can be to dot dev if the dot dev is taken, right? It's still pretty on point. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. This is not an asphalt by the way. This is my, this is my beliefs. These are my beliefs. They saw us coming Amy. Google domain authority. Like does, I think dot com weighs into it. Yeah, for sure. I think dot net is old school enough that it's probably better, harder to get than dot tech dot tech is pretty wide open, which is a good reason for it. This is also not an advertisement. I'm mentioning sponsors. We do have another sponsor image proxy, which actually is pretty cool. And they're a dot net. It's an open source image processing that you self host and they also have a paid version of it that does a lot, a lot of other cool stuff, like more cores, more CPU's, more images. So if you're like imager and you want to process a lot of images, like millions, they have a paid version of it, but they're image proxy dot net. And I just noticed that cause I was emailing them earlier and I was like, Hmm, okay, you're a dot net. Not that it's bad, but like dot net isn't that cool. So with this sponsor, I'm just gonna, sure. One more layer. Go ahead. Yeah, of course it's about help us out. Yeah, I'm curious. So are they like generating images or just like resizing or filtering

existing

images? I have not dug into the tech yet. So I'm going to talk to Sarah J who is the CTO and once I had that conversation, I'll have more knowledge. But from what I understand, rather than using say, uh, image X, I believe is the other one that's out there. That one's old school too. Yeah, they're a SAS, they're an API. So you host it there. You make calls to their API, right? Whereas this, it's a Docker image. You self host. Okay. They also, I think they have a cloud version of a potentially the fact that it's called image proxy. It makes me think that it's the images live elsewhere and it's doing stuff on the fly. You can put on your own S3, your own R2, you host it yourself and you make calls to it via the URL and it just gives you the image size you want. It does all the resizing, you know, I suppose just in time and then there's probably caching layers in there and stuff like that. So it's pretty interesting, but their model is open source and you can, that's cool. What I love about their on ramp, just to give them a little bit, I think it's super cool for a, like a, a strategy is their product is fully open source. I think it's evenly permissive license, like MIT, like way open. And, uh,

the

same Docker image that you use is the same Docker image you would use as a paid version of it, except for now it's behind credentials. It's a proprietary Docker image when you go to a paid version of it, but it's the same, you know, core of that Docker image. So from a code standpoint, all you're changing is the Docker string and some credentials to like pull from Docker hub, which I thought was a pretty interesting on ramp. Cause like from a, an implementation standpoint, you're not changing anything. You can go open source and fully use what it is as anybody out there. But then if you have these specific larger pro needs, you can go get pro

and

it's just a change with your Docker hub. That's nothing else. Like all of your code stays the same with how you use it. It almost sounds like the super base model.

Yeah.

Yeah. Which I really like. Yeah. And you can host it wherever you want. So you can on -prem, your own hosting, S3, pick your, pick where you're putting it at. R2. Let me segue back to the previous conversation because we were talking about image proxy, a proxy for your image. Domain names are kind of a proxy for your idea, right? Like you got an idea, you give it a name, you hold onto the domain in the hopes that you'll implement it some day. And I'm starting to reach a point where I'm realizing in life, well, first of all, I've always known intellectually, at least that ideas are actually cheap and like execution is hard, but yet we still hold onto the idea very tightly, right? Cause they're our babies and we just want to hold onto them just in case. Right. And I've started personally to get to a point where I've realized like most of my ideas, I'm never going to do them. Yeah. And so I'm just giving them away in the hopes that somebody else does them. Have you ever considered this for some of your domains? Like here's a, but you could even say I got 150 domains.

That's a great idea. Each one has a good

idea behind it. That's mine. But maybe you have a better idea. Here's a domain, you know, you have an audience. There's people who would be like, here's, here's domains to the person who will actually love that idea. You can go put like one of this email version of it, put out there for like a grand and say, here's the newest idea. She's not going to do that one. Well, I'm just, that's the only one I know about your old ideas. You know, I could let go of that one. Cause it's the newest. If there's an older idea that I want to hang on to more, I mean, you go online and you see all kinds of,

I

mean, even get hub repos of project ideas or, you know, you could build this, you could build that. That sounds like a great thing

to

give people is not only are you giving them the project idea, but you have the domain to go along with it and doesn't have to be free. You can sell it to them at a reasonable price for free for a percent. Yeah. Yeah. Here's the idea for free. Go do it. Maybe there's an agreement like, okay, X, you know, and you get, that's really interesting. It's sort of like an investment. So there are companies that kind of do stuff like that. Actually, if you take that a step further, yeah, there's a company called fractal and it's an investment, it's a venture capital company. And what they do is they go in and they do market research on all these different verticals and then they will hire a CTO and a CEO, a pair to run the company and they give them a million dollars to go in and build that company. And they're trying to get

whatever

reinvestment they can get customers within that first year. They have to go in and build everything. Which is kind of an interesting strategy. Yeah, that is interesting. I wonder if that would work. They've already done the market research on those verticals and they have built in coaching and tech support for the CTOs that are building things. And yeah, so you have a CEO and a CTO that might not be interested in that vertical at all, but that's what they've been assigned to. So it's like, are you interested in the vertical or are you interested in the job is kind of interesting, but they've already done the research on that market piece to know, we think there's an app here that's very niche that nobody else is building. Yeah, that's a cool idea. Give the ideas away or give them away with, with some sort of strings attached. Yeah, I think that's what goes in that case. You get to give it away at no cost. So the startup cost is free and the idea is sort of like maybe even backed and maybe you're also an advisor, you know, like if it's a good enough pair and then you're like, Hey, give me 5 % of the equity.

So

it's funny as I have a domain that this whole thing could live on. Oh, really? That's amazing. Projectsfordev .com. Projectsfordev .com. Yeah,

you

should do something with that. I believe we've just given you an idea for free. We will take 5 % equity. Thank you very much. I have the idea. And you've got the domain. So if you're listening here, here we go. If you're listening to this and you think that's a good idea, we've got just the domain. You go build it a place where we can post our free domain ideas and do this whole idea that just happened and then maybe we'll get hook you up with a domain to put the thing. Jared says maybe. Well, I don't want to offer Amy's domain up to somebody. Before you go, give Compress a plug here at the end. Yeah. So I co -host a podcast with James Cukwick, Brad Gerepe, and Becca, and it's called Compressed FM. And our tagline is it's a little bit of web design and development with a little bit of zest. So if you listen to the intro, that is James rapping. Which is kind of a fun story. And it rhymes with a compressed. Is that on purpose? It's part of the rap. Jared, you've never heard it, huh? I've never heard the rap. This is funny. When we started this idea about the podcast, James was like, I'll rap an intro. And I didn't know James very well at the time. And I was just thinking, oh, great. Great idea. I know. Can't wait to hear it. And then it was like solid. So you started a podcast with a complete stranger? It wasn't a complete stranger, but we didn't know each other very well at that point. Yeah. Perfect strangers. Good show. We've been on a couple of live streams and I reached out. I was like, Hey, I want to do a podcast. And he was like, he told me no, no, no, no, I don't have enough time. I can't do it. And then he came back and he was like, well, let's talk about it. Okay. This makes sense. I've thought about it and I are kindred spirits. Cause I have wrapped on JS party in the past.

And

I also wrote an entire rewrite of Snoop dogs, not gin and juice. What's the one I woke up in the morning. Lottie Dottie. I wrote an, I completely rewrote Snoop dogs, Lottie Dottie to tell a story about JS party, but I didn't publish it. Cause it was pretty bad. So

we're on the same

wavelength.

If you're

a plus plus member, this might be in the outro. Ooh, good idea. Let's put it there. A little bonus. If we get 10 new plus plus members, Jared will know. That's right. I don't want to hold that idea hostage. All right. We won't, we'll let you go. Amy has to go. Thank you. It's awesome. You guys. If you're listening, you may remember the early days of the internet where open networks like HTTP and SMTP led to an explosion of websites and online communities. Building a fan site and connecting over shared passions led so many of us to careers in software. Back then, it seemed like anything was possible because the internet of the nineties was built to democratize information, not consolidate it with a handful of big tech companies. Read write own building. The next era of the internet is a new book from startup investor Chris Dixon that explores how network architecture plays out in our online lives and the decisions that took us from open networks governed by communities of developers to massive social networks run by internet giants. Read write own is a playbook for reclaiming control and for reimagining applications so users can own, co -create and even profit from the platforms they use every day from AI that compensates creators to protocols that reward open source contributions. This is our chance to build the internet we want, not the one we inherited. Order your copy of read write own today or go to readwriteown .com to learn more. We finish up this episode with longtime listener Andres Pineda, whose biceps are only out shown by his enviable afro top sprinkled with the color of experience. Here's Andres sharing some of that experience with us. Andres, I met Andres in line when I was registering. Okay, awesome. And you were standing with Latice, right? Was it Latice? Lettuce. He had lettuce with him. No, no. Who's that? The girl you were standing with in line. Y 'all were talking. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's let the lettuce. Yeah, I think it is. Yeah. Okay. I don't think I've seen her since then. Yeah, I saw her yesterday because she's part of a, there's a, the sponsor. She is on the, on the other table. Okay. And so we were talking and she was asking me a bunch of questions. He was telling me he's a listener and I'm like, well, we got to talk nice. And then we talked last night, uh, had a lot of fun at the, uh, the piano bar at the piano bar. It was a great night. Where were you? I was out till about nine 30 and then I went to bed. That's right. So I was at the previous, at the restaurant, but I got in late the previous night, woke up early. I was smoked. You know, we did conversations all day yesterday and I just needed some sleep last night. So I'm sorry I missed you. Yeah, it was, it was a good time. I heard it was a good time. Well, that's why he's here now to, to come back with a little rehash to some degree. What are you going to rehash? Well, I'll lay it out to some degree. We can go wherever, but he's a listener. As you can tell, he recognized your face over mine and he saw me on TV. He's like, who is that guy? Apparently I look different with no hat on and no scrubs. Yeah, no beard, no beard. It's all cleaned up. I told him my age last night and he's like, you don't look that age. Yeah. So that's a compliment. I said, you got amazing hair. I wish I had your hair. He's like, man, my hair is my brand. And then he showed me your avatar. What was it? The, your, the silhouette. Yeah. Yeah. It's, that's why they call the, the, the avatars. So it's called Pinedex. So if you go anywhere near the Latano Dominican Republic specifically, you will see that, uh, people will recognize the avatar. Let me see if I have one

of

those. We'll put a photo of this in the show notes. If we can, is this your online as well? I have a, so this, so there's a, there's a whole story around the avatar. I don't, I don't think I have one right now. He's searching his backpack for a sticker. That's the avatar. That's not even a sticker. That's a poker chip. I have stickers. There's, there's, there's, there's coffee mugs. I think I have one. I will find it. If you have one, I want it. There's coffee mugs. It looks like you. Yeah. It is me. It was a picture and they just grow it. A friend of his did this for him. Yeah. This is cool. Well, I'll, I'll tee it up and you can share the story, but he's from the Dominican Republican and he's had to keep his hair short there. And as a revolt, he's grown out of his beard and his hair and it's become his brand. You can take it, you can take it from there. Yeah, exactly. So I was working at this company and every time I had just a little more hair than what it was regular, there was politely suggest me to get a haircut, you know, third world country. It was different actually. Also, it was a 10 years ago, 15 years ago. So I quit the company. I started working in a, in a, in a company. It was a remote work. And since then, 2014, I haven't gone to a barbershop any, any, any longer. Since then, I moved to another country where this is not an issue. I don't think it is not even an issue anymore in Dominican Republic, actually. It was just, I was at the bad time at the bar, at the bad place, bad time and right. Love it. And now he's in Canada. Quebec. Not currently. You're in Austin, Texas. Well, yeah, currently in Texas. Thank you, Jared, for the clarification. Yeah, but you live in Montreal. Yeah. And the reason living in Montreal was also, uh, there's a story behind it. So software developer, my first community, my first conference outside of the And it's, it's a Python conference that happens all across the United States. By coincidence that year, that conference was going to happen in Montreal for the first time I saw the United States. Uh, so I did all the paperwork I need. I asked for the visa. I went to this conference and after the conference, I stayed at Montreal for 15 days. Uh, so I connected with the people. I visited companies. I visited meetups, you know, as usual meetups was already there. I was trying to connect with the developer community in Montreal. Um, so during that time, I just called my wife and said, I just found the place where we're gonna spend the rest of our life. Montreal is amazing. A lot of the people, the food, the weather in quotes, in quotes, because it's amazing. Even the weather, cause you have the four seasons, there has something special in each season. It's not in Dominican Republic, each season is the same. Regardless if it is summer, if it is winter or spring, you will have, it's going to be warm. I'm with you man, cause I'm in Nebraska and we have all four seasons and each one is that season is that season and to an extreme in certain cases to where I'm like, some seasons are longer than I want them to be, such as winter. Exactly. But

we

get all four seasons and there's something special about that. It is because you, something I learned once you move to Montreal that teach me that you cannot take things for granted. Like in terms of weather, the mini camps, we wake up in the morning of any day in any time of the year, and it's most likely going to be the same. In Montreal it's not like that, or in Nebraska, you gotta, you have summertime and you gotta use those four weeks that you get off summer and you gotta take everything that you can do with those four weeks. Plus it teaches you the value of, I guess, like relativity because the same exact temperature feels different on the way in or the way out of a season. So like going into winter, 40 degrees Fahrenheit

is

feeling cold, right? You're like, ah, I'm coming out of summer. It's fall. It's getting colder. I'm going to bundle up. It gets colder, colder, colder coming out of winter on the other side. Here comes spring 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Woo. If it's good, go outside shirtless. Like this is amazing. If it's good, you happy, you're happy. It's the same temperature. Yeah, this isn't temperature, but, uh, the, the fat that you are leaving winter behind, it gives you hope. It teaches you perspective. Exactly. Yeah, it does give you hope. Whereas on the way into it, you're like, here we go, here we go. For sure. Oh, that's funny. So yeah, I've been living there and since then I've been trying to connect with all the different communities. I'm a software developer myself. At that time when I moved there, I was heavily on mobile and so I was connecting with the iOS community, with the Android community, Swift community, and that was all their cross platform technologies that I was using at the time. Summering forms was one of them. And also Uno platform, which is, was created and built on mantra. So right now I'm not working directly with them, but I'm one of the maintainers. So because being in a place where there are many things happening compared with a place where I'm coming from, allow me to connect with way more people to increase my, my network. And I started learning, uh, why does the benefit of, of communities. And that's why I'm here today. And that's why I've been attending conference every year since 2014. Since my first time. This seems like a great one to learn the benefit of the community. It is. It's very community oriented. That's cool. I've never been to Montreal. Have you? I have not. It should come. What's going on up there? It should come. There's a lot of things happening and every season you will find something, something crazy or nice to do. Uh, in summers it's usually packed because Montreal is a place for, there's a lot of tourism and if you go a little bit more east in the Quebec city, which is the capital of the, of Quebec, you will find even way more things to see. It's very multicultural, but overall Montreal feels like a, like a small European city in the north. Okay. So instead of food, if you're a foodie like me, I like food. Um, you can think about any type of food and you might be able to find out in Montreal. Are there, uh, tech events, conferences up there? Yeah. There's one happening recent in, uh, in, uh, in February. I'm going to be attend, I'm going to be participating there as a speaker. It's called Kung Fu. Kung Fu. I've heard of Kung Fu. Kung Fu, yeah, yeah. It's a happiness in Montreal. It's a really great experience and conference and the organizing, the speaker, all the everything. And it's a whole package of learning and enjoying. It feels pretty much like this one. It will happen in February 19, uh, for four days, if I'm not mistaken, with three days. Cool. Uh, different track like this one. So we should get it going, man. I think so. I've heard good thing. Kung Fu, C O N, C O N, F O. Yup. Like, like, like FUBAR, like FUBAR. I was thinking Kung Fu, like Kung Fu. No, like FUBAR. That's kind of cool too. That's why I stole it out for you. Thank you. So I think I submitted a talk to Kung Fu years and years ago

and

they either accepted it, I can't remember the details, but I didn't end up going to the conference, but I was like this close to going and ever since then they've always emailed me to CFP every year and I just, I've never actually submitted since then. But every year I'm like Kung Fu, it sounds cool and I've never gone. So maybe we should get that going. It's a big conference. Yeah, I've heard about it. It's very heavy. It started heavy on web, but you know, it grew to a point that you can see everything right now. Cool. Well think about that. So what kind of tech are you into? You've done a lot of different stuff, but what about today? I call it, I say myself like I'm multidisciplinary. I love languages. I just love coding, soft programming. At the end of the day, we are here to give value, not to talk about the future. I saw that phrase yesterday in the keynote. So I started with .NET, .NET I think is my base. It's the one that I know the most that I have used the most. And, but I did for two years recently, uh, front end using TypeScript, React, very heavy on the React and I was at community at that time when I had to switch from mobile into front end, my first thing was, let me get people in the community that speak this language. And I'm not talking about the language TypeScript, like JavaScript, I'm talking the language of the ecosystem. It's true. People say, once you learn one language, it's easy to learn the other. That's partially true because you will learn the language, you will learn the features, but you will not, if you do not get immersed, you will not learn what all the things that the language requires in order to work. And that's what I did. So I started connecting with, uh, people in the community. That's how I started following James Quig. That's how I started following, uh, JS party. That is part of the, I just learned this morning. You just found out that JS party

is part of the

change law organization. I, I, I'm a follower of JS party because, uh, uh, two years ago when I was looking to increase my JavaScript knowledge, that was one of the first podcasts that came to me because of people mentioning it. Right. And, uh, so these days basically mostly doing backend. Doing back, back to dotnet, doing backend, doing microservice, Docker, Kubernetes on top of GCP, all the things, man, all the things, and, uh, purely collaborating on this open source project on a platform. I mentioned this is project is, uh, based in Montreal and, uh, this project, what it's looking UNO UNO, it's a really nice project. And basically what it wants is using a single set of tools, SAML for the UI and C -sharp, or you can do all C -sharp, you can build application for all the different platform. You know, this is something that we have been looking for years, Java try, electron try dotnet with summary forms. We have tried many times and this one is not different than the, it's different than the others in some sense, but it's looking the same output. Uh, one thing that I enjoy because I'm very heavy as well into learning web assembly is that web assembly capabilities that this platform can provide. So I'm there collaborating as an open source contributor. If you can read my, my open source is art open source is our open source is has shown to be the right way. Yeah.

That

reminds me of the quote of the week that I put in changelog news yesterday morning. So this comes from Tom Wilmot. I actually saw it on Matt Mullenweg's blog and he says proprietary software is like creating art, which no one can see. Open source elevates software engineering to a collaborative art form. Code is poetry and poetry is art. Yeah, that's right. So call open source is art. It's very, it's very, I love that quote. Open source elevates software engineering to a collaborative art form. It is. And one of the things that I love

about

open source is that it enables developers to learn from others is that it's not only that a tool that you can use and you're going to use it in your project is that whenever you have the opportunity to learn from others, it's a good opportunity for growing and to open source, open that open source, you are able, for example, Xamarin when it started used to be closed source and if you had any problem, you need to open a ticket. It became open source and every time I had a problem, I would just go github .com slash xamarin .com I will go to the code and I will investigate and find probably not find a way to fix it, but find work around the problem and even suggest fixes. That's the important that not everything relies on the person that creates the project. Once it is open source, you have a whole community backing you off to help you, to guide you and to suggest, make you do suggestion that can make that project succeed even more. Whatever I think of code is art. I think of why the lucky stiff. Have you ever heard of why the lucky stiff? It's a guy, he's a guy or he was a guy. He's, he's off the internet now. Is he still around? He's just not right. So he was in the Ruby community, which is a, one of my earlier programming languages was Ruby and he was very good at being art. He's an artist and with code and he wrote a book called wise poignant guide to Ruby, which was a story of like two animals. He created characters, one teaching the other Ruby and it was just very enjoyable way. He's teaching you a programming language while you're reading the story about these two characters. Just pure art, right? Pure art. Yeah, for sure. And he ended up burning out. It's a sad story. He left the programming community burned out. He's, he's living in the real world now teaching still. I think last time I heard of him, but he had all of his code open source and I was pretty young in the Ruby, my, my Ruby roots and I had read his poignant guide and I had realized that he created his own web server because back then everybody was using Web Rick, Web Rick for dev. And then what was that? Shaw's thing for prod forget Zed. Shaw had a more of a battle hardened. Web Rick was for, I wouldn't know it as soon as I heard it anyways. Can't think of it the moment, but why had his own web server that he wrote and I remember going to his open source code and reading his code and this guy coded as art. I mean, and Ruby is a great language for that because he would invent ways of doing things where you're like, this would never pass code review, right? Like this would never go into enterprise production rollout, but it's beautiful and weird and I'm, I learned so much about the Ruby programming language by reading his code because he was doing stuff that I didn't know was possible. Yeah. And it was just, that's what I think of when I think of open sources art. It's like I learned reading his stuff and if that was closed or never left his hard drive, like the world would have missed something that it got for free. Exactly. So cool. Exactly. Exactly. And just recently a friend of mine had a problem with a proprietary software and he asked me for her and there was not much that we can do other than just open a ticket and wait for the person to find the solution. And if it was open source, you could probably not even probably not fix it. But as I say, ask the owner of the project of the product, if you want to charge, it's okay. Open source, you can get money even charging this amount of their way to monetize open source. Red has show that is possible, right? But in this case, my friend, he got just a library of DLL that he put in his projects and done a project and he's trying to make it a work and it's not working. It's not even any, any hint or insight that what's, what's going on since it is closed source. There's no way for him other than just open a ticket. Truth. It goes from an I to a we. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Which is cool. Yeah. Cause now it's not me, it's us. And that's beautiful. Better together. Yes. Right. There are many projects out there that is started as a pet project for somebody. And right now it's a product that is holding a many big projects out there. Yeah. I try to often try to wonder the world in this moment. Mongrel was a mongrel mongrel. Right. It was my, it came back to me. He going,

just

that's dead. Shaw's program. Mongrel. Go ahead. Yeah, that was very popular. Mongrel too. Anyways, keep going. We've plotted about that in the past many, many years ago. Yeah, I need to come back. Go ahead. I just think about what would the world be like? In this moment, we obviously wouldn't be talking probably. If open source was not a thing. Like if, if we never, if somebody never said this should be shared, we should collaborate, this needs to be free. Not just as a free, like as a monetary freedom, but like the freedom of, of enjoyment of collaboration, of where it can go, how it can be used, et cetera. Like what would the world be like if open source was never open source? That's a good question. And I feel that, uh, all the improvement that we have done in every piece of technology so far, we wouldn't be able to be that far. Yeah, just that. I mean, I, um, been coding or in the industry for almost 20 years. And when I started, there was, open source was not a thing. It was, even though Linus has been there, it was open source, but the, the tooling and the collaboration was not there yet. And it was because of the internet. The internet was not what we have right now. And I remember trying to find a line of tooling that do something and you will find the DLL or you will find the package already of the library. And even though that could solve one of my problems, it didn't solve it in the right way because now you are trusting someone with a library that you don't know what's going on inside there. Would you do that in your, one of your projects in your company? I guess no. I guess the open source, open the trust between creators and the people that use her can be companies, can be a startups and anyone to, you can see what we're doing and you can be part of this at any time. And without that, I don't feel that we will be able to go that far because otherwise we'll be relying on only on big companies to do those things that we have right now for free in quotes. You don't see, you cannot see this as a podcast. He put quotes up when he said that. Yeah. Audio only. Well, Andres, thanks so much for talking to us today. Anything else you want to talk about before I let you go? Yeah. Well, before there was a conversation that we had last night and we talked about the stickers and we saw about the Pinedex and what those Pinedex means and why, why it's important. So if you go to Dominican Republic and you say in the, in the tech, you say Pinedex, Pinedex became an icon that people use to talk when they want to talk about, they want to improve when they want to be better. It all started that my last name is Pineda without the X at the end. It all started as a, in the communities, every people that would participate and make others to be better by doing presentations, by helping others in the, in the forums. It wasn't in a Facebook. Sure. You will get the X, that X means that you escalated into a level that you are, you are, you being helpful for the community. It was just a way for, to identify people that are collaborating and making the community even better. So I got my X because I started doing meetups. I started, uh, helping mentoring, even though my, um, I've really joined a stage of my learning because when I joined the community, I was not the person that could be here talking today. I couldn't see a microphone. I couldn't be in front of people. I was scared, but the community teach me that. So I found that I could also help others to overcome the fear of talking because there's a lot of smart people out there. They just feel, they just feel fear of talking in front of people. So I got my X. That's cool. It's called Pineda X. And, uh, right now, Pineda X has become that person, that icon, that people talk, that people say, I would like to be that like that. Not like me because I'm just a person, but like what Pineda X represents. And I'm happy to be the person behind that icon. I will get you the stickers and, uh, as I keep continue making that Dominican Republic community robes, I helps even remote. And I travel at least twice a year for conferences over there. Yeah, man. That's really cool. I heard that story. I was loving it. Sounds like you got to come say that on the show. We got to come talk. So there's stickers. Is there a website? Is there anything else that's like formalizing this concept? So I only have the Twitter handle and this is Pineda X on the score depth. Usually this is in Spanish because this is meant for Spanish and Latin America communities and, and that, I mean, cool. So follow that. We'll put it in the show notes. Go get your X. Love it. Thanks Andres. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Um, being listeners since long as listener and I have you, you are the only show that I have on YouTube. Oh wow. That's right. I don't, I don't, I don't mix entertainment with learnings. I usually have to do this for an account. Keep it separate, right? That's right. But you're the only ones that sometimes I'm looking for something Friday night and you show up with one of the clips and that's why your phrase was familiar. He watches it and he's like, I can't watch this on Saturday night or Friday night. I got to watch this one. It makes sense, but he will, he will watch it, but he wants to go and like, listen to the full length show because it teases him. It's a tease and it's a, it is a tease and he's a good one because it brings this expectation, say I want to hear more. That's the entire point. Thank you. Then queue it up for Monday. There you go. Queue it up. Yeah. I love that you, uh, listen, that you enjoy our clips. I love that you found JS party. Yeah. And didn't realize that was also us. No, just this morning. Okay. Well, happy to connect those dots. Cool. Thank you. Yeah, man. Thank you. Adam and I would like to give our sincere thanks to our friends at CloudFlare for bringing us to that conference. It was such a well -run event. Shout out to Clark and his team for doing it right in all the right ways. Those folks sweat the details and it really shows. There's another, that conference in Wisconsin at the end of July. Will you be there? Hopefully we will, but we'll have to wait and see. We'll also have to wait a few more days for our next changelog beats album to drop. Spotify has approved it, but Apple music hasn't yet. Wall Gardens. Lame, right? We'll talk more about it once it's official, but all of the music you heard on this episode is featured on the album. It's called Dance Party, and we dare you to listen to this bundle of BMC bangers and try, just try, not to dance your pretty little face off. Next week on the changelog, news on Monday, Nadia Ohanayo, the founder and one woman dev team behind StoryGraph on Wednesday and on Friday. Well, let's leave something to the imagination, shall we? Thanks again to Fly .io, to Breakmaster Cylinder, and to you for listening. We love that you choose to spend time with us each week. That is all for now, but let's talk again real soon.