Very important agents

Welcome to Changelog and Friends, your weekly talk show about coding with agents. A big thank you to our friends and our partners over at fly.io, the home of changelog.com and maybe your home too. Learn more at fly.io. Okay, let's talk. Well, friends, Agentic Postgres is here and it's from our friends over at Tiger Data. This is the very first database built for agents and it's built to let you build faster. You know, a fun side note is 80% of Claude was built with AI. Over a year ago, 25% of Google's code was AI generated. It's safe to say that now it's probably close to a hundred percent. Most people I talk to, most developers I talk to right now, almost all their code is being generated. That's a different world. Here's the deal. Agents are the new developers. They don't click, they don't scroll, they call, they retrieve, they parallelize. They plug in your infrastructure to places you need it to perform, but your database is probably still thinking about humans only because that's kind of where Postgres is at. Tiger Data's philosophy is that when your agents need to spin up sandboxes, run migrations, query huge volumes, a vector and text data, well, normal Postgres, it might choke. And so they fixed that. Here's where we're at right now. Agentic Postgres delivers these three big leaps, native search and retrieval, instant zero copy forks and MCP server, plus your CLI, plus a cool free tier. Now, if this is intriguing at all, head over to tigerdata.com. Install the CLI, just three commands, spin up an Agentic Postgres service and let your agents work at the speed they expect, not the speed of the old way. The new way, Agentic Postgres, it's built for agents, is designed to elevate your developer experience and build the next big thing. Again, go to tigerdata.com to learn more.

Well, Vim was backwards. You can't have that. Oh my goodness. You got to represent. New Ang.

It was Miv.

You know, my, my daughter's friend, uh, apparently was telling her class that, um, my license plate stands for very important man, which I felt super embarrassed about.

How lame would that be if that was actually what you, my dad's a very important man and he thinks he is, therefore he got himself a license plate that tells you that, oh, that would be the worst. Well, that's hilarious.

Well, that's when you leave the kids to figure stuff out on their own.

You know, they're going to just, they're going to figure out what that acronym stands for. I weep for the youth.

Isn't that the case of every older generation that at some

point they weep for the youth? Yes. Yes. Right. I never thought I would be there, but I concur. There's a lot of crying. We're just doing a lot of crying. So much crying and complaining. Where was it last week?

I just, I had to get my complaints out.

I just like, hold on guys, let me complain about something and then we can move on. I forget what it was, but I don't know. It was the way of the world. And it's just like, why, why are we like this? Why do we have to complain about the way things are just accept, embrace and extinguish or something like that, something like that. Yeah. And get extinguished. Enjoy, enjoy, accept, embrace and extinguish. Enjoy, enjoy, accept, embrace, enjoy.

Yeah. You might as well, cause that's where I'm at.

Like, well, what choice do you have? Right.

Just heaven. Huh? That's all we can do. Can't change anything.

You know, I'm more concerned about this, this new, this new look, Nick is rocking, not just the shirt and being a very important man, but you

like that it's a little more fluffy on top of Instagram. Instagram is how I get my style.

Instagram sold you that t-shirt.

It did. I mean, some ad on Instagram, right? It keeps zooming in on me, but let's see if it'll zoom in on Pierce.

It's him holding a N64 controller. Oh, that's sick. That's dope, man. They, they pegged you demographically and got you to buy that. That was one of the best games of all times, you know, like modern, modern for us, you know, our era back in the day for many or not in the day at all for most back in the day for us, not back in the day for many. Yeah.

Speaking of, since we're just like picking apart my appearance, does my

face look extra flushed, like a, like, were you Santa recently, Nick? I was not like your, your parents is very Santa like, and it is December. What is this a Roseola you got going?

Oh, well that is from my new favorite thing in the world, which you're not going to believe all it cost me was my dignity and that's I'm excited. What, what, what, what I, before coming home to record this fantastic show with y'all, I was at a coffee shop, where in my vision pro working at a coffee shop, at a coffee shop.

You're that guy.

I'm that guy and proud to be it.

You're the VIM. You're the very important man with this very important vision pro on his face. Now, Jared, had I known this information prior to the invitation, I would have considered rescinding. Just rescind that. I mean, we could do it right now, like a five minute episode. All right, y'all, this is the show. That's it. Nick. Sorry, guys. Nick dropped the ball. We can hang out with this guy. So who gave you this idea and why did you follow it?

I've been doing a lot of travel, which I've been spending a lot of time on airplanes and like trying to get worked on, you know, my flight to, I've been to find mostly to San Francisco and I've been flying United. And for some reason, the Omaha to San Francisco direct flight for some reason has free star link, which is amazing. So I can literally like stream TV shows and have fast internet. I could take zoom calls, but I'm not that guy. Not yet.

You're not alone. You don't have to reconsider. Might as well, right? Is there a vision pro? Maybe there is.

There is. And when you connect with that, you connect with your avatar. So they just see like a weird 3d representation of me, which is amazing.

Is that what we're looking at right now?

Or can we get, no, this is really, this is really you.

Did you get the Ray-Ban glasses yet?

I have a pair. Uh, I used to work at better, not the ones with the glasses.

Were you a glass hole? I can't remember if you were a glass hole or not.

I was this close.

Oh, okay. Now we know where he draws a line or at least you used to draw it. He's an edger man. He's on the edge. He is. You have all the cool new toys. So when did you get this vision pro? This is news to us.

Yeah, I got it. Uh, pretty much the day it came out, the day it came out, I was in San Francisco and I walked over to the union square Apple store and they didn't have one.

The new one. This is the new one.

Yes. The, I mean the new one, as in it has an M five and literally nothing else.

Like they re-released the same thing with an updated ship.

I know. I know I'm a sucker.

Did they raise the price too?

Sure.

Didn't this is that what we're talking about? They never reduced prices bumped it a little bit too. They probably did.

Did they, I mean, I shouldn't say this, but when you're spending that much and they didn't have it in stock, the one that I wanted, but they had the terabyte model, which was only like a small percentage of the total cost more to upgrade it. I just got that.

So how much of the small percentage was it? Can you be specific?

I don't know exactly. I got the one terabyte model waiting in line.

Did you, you weren't waiting in line outside the, okay. Cause I just got a great visual of you, downtown San Francisco, waiting in line with someone else. Just wait, you know, they're waiting for like a crack hit or something and you're waiting for your vision pro. They had the rat pack jackets on Nick and, you know, some miscreants out there. Okay. So you didn't have to wait in line up a ding there. Jason drop a ding there. That was a Silicon Valley reference. Nobody gets it.

I didn't hear what you said.

They had the rat pack jackets on. Oh, rap in the line. You know, when he's, Dinesh was walking around with his rat, his rat pack jacket. It's very colorful. Uh, Jared Dunn from the show made them and they were just a version of hideous flamboyant. I don't know if I would call it flamboyant, definitely like a version of a peacock, but like a poor version of it. It's like a varsity jacket gone wrong. Oh, cool. Yeah. It's kind of cool. Actually. Something that you'd imagine that I'm telling you if I had one, I would wear it right now.

Well, I see you have it playing in the background right next to your cloud flare

memorabilia is a little bit back there. Where are they at? Oh, there's, you must've fixed your arch by the way. Last show, Nick, Adam couldn't run his television cause it had, it had arch as its base OS. He couldn't even get it to boot last week. I could get it to boot. Uh, it just had issues and I didn't feel like dealing with it. It had a one too many dims. Now I do have a friend who works at AMD and he said, Hey, share with me your build specs and I will see what I can do. And I said, well, this isn't customer support. I just want to know why the AM5 controller has such issues with four dims.

Wait. You're running Linux right now.

I can't talk about that. Uh, yeah, back there. I am. Always, man. It is, it is officially the year of Linux desktop for me, man. Are you running Linux or is Linux running you? That's the question, you know?

Well, if I would have known this, I would have rescinded my sentence for the, for

the cool fact. I'm the very important man here. Okay. That's right. I'm the VIM. Well, Nick, I thought maybe your face was all all flush because of this news. It just came out this afternoon.

Oh gosh. What's the news?

Well, I've got some news. I'm not sure if my news, Nick, you've heard some other news.

Maybe I going to rip up, what does it call it? A paper rock scissors it.

No, I think we should count down from three and say the news at the same time.

All right.

Okay. Three, two, one. Bun is being bought by anthropic. Oh, you didn't say it. You waited for me.

I said bun. I didn't know if you're going to say anthropic or bun. So I was trying to match.

I know that was good. So anthropic the corporation behind such products as Claude and Claude code. I'm not sure what else they got going for him.

Claude for Chrome.

Okay. We might talk about that later. That'll come up later for sure. Uh, I think they use bun. I think Claude is like written in bun style, JavaScript stuff, I guess. Is there a bun style? I I'm far enough away from bone at this point. I've interviewed Jared a couple of times, but it's been a few years that I can't remember how different it is from node. Is it node compatible?

I think so.

Okay. So it's like, take your node code and run it faster with some other stuff they had over anyways, I'm flaunting my algorithms here, but I'm pretty sure that Claude code is written in bun and then anthropic because they're flush with all this investor money, I assume like raising billions and billions of dollars and they're like, eh, we're going to buy it bun and a bun said yes. Which I think is what I would say if I was running bun.

Wouldn't you guys, I mean, they're probably getting a bunch of money.

So that's a bunch of baloney. That sounds, uh, bun-tastic.

I don't know what to think.

Oh, why not?

I mean, it's exciting. Right. But what, what do they need to do to bun that they couldn't do as like this more open thing or like independent thing?

What does anthropic need bun to do or to do to bun?

As you said, if I was a diehard bunner, what, like, is this good news for me or is this bad news because anthropics preference on whatever they, whatever direction they need to take bun into is now where it's going. And so does that mean I left out because maybe it's not the direction that I'm also hoping my product will go with bun or do I now have like special treatment because now like anthropic or Claude will inherently know everything about bun and know how to perfectly write code for bun applications as just a side effect.

Or was bun ink or whatever they call it oven. I can't remember what they call it. They got good puns over there. Were they on their last, you know, couple of months of payroll and they didn't find a way of monetizing and anthropic is like, we want this thing to continue. It's open source and MIT license. So the project would continue to exist, but not at the pace of progress that a full-time team can put behind it. And maybe it was one of these bailout situations where it's like, let's Aqua hire cause Jared Sumner and his team, obviously very talented engineers built something that's quite useful and good. And has helped push the industry forward in the JavaScript server side world. Let's use some of this extra cash that we're sitting on because they raised so much money. Now that being said, they're also burning through a lot of it with GPU purchases, with rentals, with data center, build outs, they're doing all kinds of stuff anthropic, and we don't know if they're actually making money per token at this point, somebody probably knows, but I don't know, are they still, you know, Losing money. Every time somebody does an inference, I know they're losing it on you, Nick. I know they're subsidizing your account.

Oh, I don't know. I think I'm subsidizing everyone else's

or not. I don't know. That's, that's something that's entropic is private. So they and their investors know that answer at this point, but if they are flush with cash, they certainly have cash on hand and they're probably looking for ways to spend it seems like a non-expensive in there, I mean, expensive for us to buy, but not expensive for anthropic to buy proposition, but I definitely get your hesitation. Like, where might it go from here? You never know if the AI industry is a bubble and the bubble bursts, you know, is anthropic more sustainable than bun is. I don't know. They seem like they are. They certainly seem like they're on stable ground, but time will tell.

Yeah, it's, it's exciting. I think it's a win for JavaScript overall. I think that bun and Dino are serving their purpose of moving node forward. And maybe this is just like giving the torch back to node a little bit on, on that because they've made a lot of great progress. I think in the more recent versions, like there's not a feature of bun that I'm like, I can't, I feel like I don't get in node. Maybe, maybe I just don't know. I don't pay attention to bun too much, but like, that's, you know, you can compile, you can run Java run TypeScript, like without compiling, which is great. You can compile binaries. You can, ESM still sucks, but like everything else seems good. There's like a, what is it? SQ light library, like built in now or coming at least. That's cool.

Got to have a built in man. Does does it get it to a single binary? Is it always a full flush, full feature web app as our binaries? Can you, can you compile to a binary?

You can, I think that it's like, like bundling up, you know, your, the JS runtime and all of the node modules into some kind of binary that can run without you having

to have node installed, but yeah, in that case, you'd want that SQLite built in. Cause you don't want to have to have reliance on anything else in the system. I'm sure you can ship a binary, but if you have to rely on SQLite being installed, then that's not cool. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I don't think they're all in one binaries are anywhere near as efficient as like goes for instance, like they're going to be quite large. And I think Dino's is the same way where it's like, it's a large binary. Even if it's a small program now it's a large program who cares, but if you want to like, you know, roll out a three megabyte compiled thing, you're not going to get that without some fancy footwork from bun and I don't think from Dino either, but the convenience is certainly there, which is really most of it at this point. I mean, we're all very rich when it comes to hard drive space and bandwidth.

For sure. You know, earlier this year I was at, um, squiggle comp, uh, that our friends, uh, Josh Goldberg and Dimitri Metropolis run. And there was a speaker there, Oliver Medhurst. Um, I think he was at, uh, they were at, uh, Firefox before that, before what they're doing now, which is building a version of JavaScript that can, can compile to a straight binary without having to have that wrapper.

Right.

Uh, I like when, when they were telling me about it, I was like really excited. I'm like, Oh, this is like where, you know, imagine that being built into Claude, like call it desktop or claw, like chat GPT and like you just being able to like, have that runtime that just can immediately and super quickly run whatever it's thinking. And like, it can validate the code that it's giving back to you, like on the fly, because it did it all like right there in the browser. This feels like maybe a move towards that. Be honest, I didn't read the blog post. I saw the, I saw the tweet. That's all.

Well, the blog post, at least from Bun's side is very straightforward. Well-written Jared Sumner penned it. And he does say what doesn't change is it Bun stays open source and MIT license. So that's great. It continues to be extremely actively maintained. Um, the team, the same team still works on Bun. Bun is still built in the public on GitHub. And then it says Bun's roadmap will continue to focus on high-performance JavaScript tooling node compatibility and replacing node as the default server side runtime for JavaScript. Um, what does change is we will help make coding tools like Claude code and Claude agent SDK faster and smaller. So there you go. We get a closer first look at what's around the corner for AI coding tools and make bunch bun better for it and bun will ship faster.

Okay.

So that's from his perspective today. Now we've read a lot of these acquisition posts where the first thing they say is nothing is changing and it's like, nothing was going to change for GitHub either when Microsoft acquired GitHub, but here we are five years later, it has changed quite a bit, hasn't it?

Wait, GitHub still exists. It's not just copilot.

Dang. Well, there's another story going on today, which not today, but it's, uh, started a little while back and continues, which is that people are starting to move off GitHub now.

Where's it going?

Codeberg Codeberg, which is a GitHub alike run by a nonprofit in the European union, and I'm not sure all the intricacies there, except that they are seemingly, and this is, I don't want to make this sound bad, but maybe it will. They they're seemingly only inter interesting in so far as they're a GitHub alike, does a nonprofit and run from the European union. I don't see anything with their technology that looks like it's newer. Attractive. Like they're not going to disrupt because of that because of technology they're going to disrupt because GitHub is a broken windows situation over there at Microsoft and getting more and more bloated and shoving copilot in our face everywhere we turn and people are getting sick of it. And so here's a different place to land. And so Zig has moved off GitHub to Codeberg. There's a few other that are doing that as well. Some of it is ideological, uh, social concerns. And then the others is just like JavaScript bloat and a GitHub actions not working as it's supposed to. And I just complaints about the platform as a platform. Basically Microsoft has been ignoring the core product, which we've all felt in various ways.

This looks exactly like GitHub in a lot of ways.

It's like basically like let's do GitHub, but somewhere else. The UX of username repo is locked in. There's so much that's locked. I was just telling you this too, Jerry, like recently, I can't imagine a world where Git isn't it, the thing we use, although JJ is really coming for, uh, you know, Git's good stuff, I suppose. And I guess GitHub, like it stamped itself as the gold standard of, of the UX, not so much the platform itself, but the UX of username repo, even pull requests, even releases, all these things that is sort of like nailed down even, you know, down to actions and stuff like that. Like it's, it's cemented itself as the primary user experience to follow. It doesn't surprise me. What do you go? You go here, you got code, you got issues, you got releases, you got activity.

Pull requests, not merge requests or whatever.

That GitLab calls on merge requests. To this day, merge requests, like, no, you lost that.

We're not going to call it that GitLab. You can work as hard as you want.

I can't believe they've gone this far with merge requests.

You know how far Leo Laporte went calling podcasts, netcasts.

I mean, it took him a decade to finally give up on it. He's still doing it. No, he doesn't do it anymore.

No, he's not doing it.

I actually listened to Mac break weekly last week. And I remember distinctly hearing podcasts you love from people you trust. And I'm like, he finally gave it up. He finally gave up netcasts. I just wasn't going to call out podcasts.

This is Twit.

He's been highly successful, but he did not have enough clout to change people to call them netcasts. And GitLab did not have enough clout to get us to call them merge requests. It's just not going to happen. It was an uphill battle the whole way. The whole way.

Do y'all call them pods? Are you on to that?

Sometimes. Yeah. Well, not, not usually plurally, but individually, like the pod or on it. Let's do a pod.

Okay.

Yeah. I was in a meeting before this incident. I got to go. I got a pod.

Nice.

So do you hate that term?

I did.

I come around until I realized you guys say it. Now I'm going to back off.

No, no, no, no. I I've come around to it, but I can't remember where I first started hearing it.

Yeah. I definitely resisted at first. I was just lots of stuff and eventually I'm like, yeah, it is shorter. I was like, you know, it's a podcast. Come on. Is the pod the important part of the cast? I guess we've all decided the pod is what it is.

Nobody even realizes probably anymore that that's from like iPod, right?

Like probably not. The other connection is lost.

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Wow. Right though. I mean, like that's the thing too. You have to appreciate the small beginnings and the iPod was not a necessarily a small beginning, but the idea that podcasts began. In a place that didn't exist when he was, when Steve jobs was saying, you know, a thousand songs in your pocket, what was the number like 10,000 something a thousand wasn't one thousand in your pocket, and that's what started off the opportunity for a podcast to be a thing, which was independent distributed audio via an MP3 on a device that became super popular. That's the,

Oh, and it was painful back in the day. Cause I was an early, early adopter and it was not easy to get your actual MP3

files onto your iPod because you had to go into iTunes, you subscribe to iTunes. Exactly. It doesn't exist anymore. Apple podcast now, but it was called iTunes back then. Also Apple music.

Yeah.

And then you had to actually sync it to your iPod before you leave the house and then using them with you.

And there was no, no third party podcast players and Apple didn't really have one. It was just built into iTunes.

Yeah.

It was awful.

Yeah. It was just the, the base sick audio player. That's how bad we needed information back then. There was no Tik TOK. There was no other, there was a LinkedIn probably, but it wasn't the LinkedIn. It is the thing. So there was certainly no Twitter X. There's certainly no mastodon.

We're talking like 2005.

What year was this? 2004. I want to say was the beginning of podcasts around 2003, 2004.

Probably wasn't until 2008, 2009 that I started becoming a heavy podcast listener.

Yeah. I could be wrong. The numbers, I think I'd say 2004 is my I'm phoning a friend right now.

So we'll get some, some facts here.

Find a friend, but yeah, humble beginnings, man. An iPod started off podcasting, which we call pods. Now we're on a pod. There you go.

Oh, wow. I'm going to go ahead and do a mea culpa on this one. LinkedIn's longer than I thought it was. Holy cow. You were right. Adam. LinkedIn actually started in may of 2003. LinkedIn.

Yeah. Oh, three. Wow. It's been around for a while. I'm like user number 23, Jared on LinkedIn. Okay. You should have like a 6 million followers over there.

Facebook was 2004, 2005. Cause I graduated high school in 2005 and I was touring my college and they brought us to a computer lab and had a signup for Facebook.

So I just Facebook here.

Yeah. I thought it was just part of like what the school did.

I didn't know that it was like, like the blackboard software. We also have Facebook. You're going to sign up right here.

That's how it was. Everybody signed up.

February, 2004 was Facebook and podcasting was 2003 for the tech and 2004 for the term. The term was coined in 2004 by journalist Ben Hammersley who combined iPod with broadcast. So what I just learned is LinkedIn is ancient, man. That thing is ancient.

It is ancient. It's gone through some iterations too.

I mean, like it's largely been. A version of what it is, but now they have the timeline and you know, a lot of things happening there.

Their timeline is the worst one there is, isn't it?

Yeah. I there's a setting if you didn't know this, that you can do chronicle chronological. So you don't have to worry about them, like shoving it down your throat with like, I think it reverts though.

I've tried to set it before and I'm like a couple of weeks later, it's back to whatever it's called algorithmically.

Yeah. The, for you style, you know, what's funny is almost every time I log into LinkedIn, the first post that it shows me is somebody, it might be the same person, but it's somebody posting the AOC tax the rich dress. Remember she wore that, uh, she wore that dress, that white dress to some red carpet and it said tax the rich on the back. And somebody's using that to make some sort of business point. Like I don't even have to click into it. I don't care. But for some reason, at least once or twice a week, when I log in LinkedIn, I see AOC under tax the rich. And it's like been like that for months.

Really?

So it's either stuck in the loop or that thing's super popular. I think it's like maybe a key to go viral over there.

I'm clearing cookies, man.

And I should log out. Well, friends, I don't know about you, but something bothers me about GitHub actions. I love the fact that it's there. I love the fact that it's so ubiquitous. I love the fact that agents that do my coding for me, believe that my CI CD workflow begins with drafting Tomo files for GitHub actions. That's great. It's all great until yes, until your builds start moving like molasses. GitHub actions is slow. It's just the way it is. That's how it works. I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry because our friends at namespace, they fix that. Yes, we use namespace.so to do all of our builds so much faster. Namespace is like GitHub actions, but faster. I mean like way faster. It caches everything smartly. It cache your dependencies, your Docker layers, your build artifacts. So your CI can run super fast. You get shorter feedback loops, happier developers, because we love our time. And you get fewer, I'll be back after this coffee and my build finishes. So that's, that's not cool. The best part is it's drop-in it works right alongside your existing GitHub actions with almost zero config. It's a one line change. So you can speed up your builds. You can delight your team and you can finally stop pretending that build time is focused time. It's not learn more. Go to namespace.so that's namespace.so. Just like it sounds like it said, go there, check them out. We use them. We love them. And you should too. Namespace.so. I'm surprised by CodeBurg honestly, I've heard of this. I didn't give it much attention. Uh, and so you're saying that Git recently moved?

No, I'm saying Zig, the Zig programming language.

Zig program. Okay. My bad.

Not Git itself. Yeah. My bad.

Zig then.

So Zig moved from GitHub to CodeBurg.

And what they said, Andrew Kelly, who's the founder or founder. Sorry. The creator of the programming language, I guess he's also founded it, but different communities there. What he said is that the only thing, or what I read out of his post is like the main thing that he's going to experience pain moving away from his GitHub sponsors.

Hmm.

Because that's how they have received a lot of the recurring donations and have allowed the programming language to flourish over the years. And so now they're moving off that, and they're trying to find out how to get their donators to move with them without losing a bunch of money. And so that's what their main concern. So there's your, there's your moat GitHub is apparently sponsors, which also they have just completely ignore, right?

Yeah. That's all I can do on that one, man.

Long sigh. You know, we've just, I just don't even know, I guess. They need a head of product on it that just cares deeply and won't stop or leave. And they just don't have that. I think Devin, she had different ideas. Uh, who else was that? We knew that worked there, Jessica, but I can't remember her last name. Lord. She was there for a bit. She came on the pod when she first joined GitHub with that role. I did say pod. And then since then, I'm not sure who's been in charge of it. I don't think anyone's in charge of it.

I mean, yeah. They don't even have a CEO, right?

Like, no, they don't. What's going on over there. They're just, they're part of the AI, something AI core. How can you be the epicenter of open source and it's one and not command the ship? I don't get it. I don't get it.

How can you be the epicenter of JavaScript? Like with GitHub, but also with TypeScript, with NPM. And that was the one I was going to call out. Like, how are they not completely embarrassed by how much they've let NPM language? It's terrible.

Is Isaac still there or did he, did he leave already? I don't, I'm not sure if Isaac is still there or not.

I don't think he's there. Isn't he doing volt or whatever.

He was doing volt, but he might've actually moved on from there.

I don't know. He moves a lot.

So he was going to come on the podcast. Yes. I said podcast just cause I went back that far back in history with Isaacs. He was going to come on the podcast just before the acquisition and he wanted to talk. But couldn't cause you know, like why, why do that when you got the, the save me money coming in. Right. And then maybe even the fun job for a bit. I wonder if he's ready. Isaacs, are you ready? Let's do it.

So when you say Isaacs, you're referring to the creator of NPM.

Yes.

Just for everybody who's not, has been around as long as the rest of us have.

My, I have an old brain and I've forgotten his full name in this moment. So I'm also just trying to use his known in my brain connection. What is this? What is his full name?

Isaac Schluter.

Isaac Schluter. There you go. Thank you. I knew I'd have it. I'm an old man. It is a doc connected. Isaac Schluter. If you're ready, Isaac, we have microphones. We have a pod come back to us. Yeah. How do you do that? How do you be GitHub and be in that position? I wonder if it's just the fact that you got so many engineers, does that become a problem? Probably not. Right. You can move fast with more engineers. I think it comes down to leadership, right? You got to have leadership.

You'd think they'd have some kind of release to show that NPM was still alive, but their, their lunch is being eaten all around them, which is crazy. Like I think Sockit's doing a great job of having almost a better UI for NPM than NPM. Uh, plus all of the security stuff, like really excited about that. And then I'm really excited about the, the JSR project from the Dino folks. That's an exciting place to go.

Which is a new registry, right?

Yes. JS registry, I assume.

So you have JSR, then you have bun, which is NPM compatible, right? How do, who is the winner here? Like, who is the one on top that everybody's feeding off of? No. Who's the leech and who's the leechers?

Node's the winner.

I don't know. Anthropic might be the winner at this point. They've got Claude code. Claude code's winning.

Yes.

Yes. Yes.

If you don't think that you're wrong.

Hey, well, they've got the UX. I mean, yeah. All right. I mean, Gemini three is really good.

For the weekend before Claude Opus 4.5 came out.

That's right. The thing is like back in, back in, back in your place there, Google. It's a lot of leapfrog when it comes to the frontier models, for sure.

It wasn't just that, like I was dedicated. I was a dedicated sonnet 4.0 is a 4.5 user, uh, before that. And like specifically when you're paying the API rates, you get, you can have the option for a million token context window. Absolutely amazing. I could work all day on the same project without ever clearing context. And I'm like, I just never ran out, you know, it was so good.

And then I've never had that experience.

I just, I reboot a lot, but I was spending a lot of money. Like you can, you can customize the, the status line in Claude code. And one of the things you can put on there is just a running dollar amount of how much you're currently, this conversation is currently costing you or costing your company.

I don't want to know that.

I do. I'm a leaderboard, man.

You're trying to be in the trillion token club, aren't you?

I one time posted a picture of, of it where I ran slash cost and it was at $420 and 17 cents. And I just posted that screenshot in Slack and said, am I in trouble?

Is that fixed on the $200 a month plan or are you actually playing that amount? Cause you got the API tokens.

API tokens.

Okay.

So there is no limit. We never get, I mean, there is a limit and we hit it once.

What is it?

I don't know.

Okay.

Um, but it's like, I don't know, they have different, different tiers of whatever. I don't luckily have to think about that, but, uh, I will say that Opus 4.5 is not only better than all of the other models I've used. It's so much cheaper, like so much. It's crazy. I think Opus before that was like, it was $25 per million input tokens and $75 per million output tokens. Now it's 15 and 25, I think, respectively.

Yeah, I guess I haven't paid as close attention as you have on that front, Nick. You're definitely the bleeding edge on this. You're edging.

I like, I mean, that's whatever, but like the, I also think, I don't know, my controversial take is like, OpenAI is over here making, making cool things. Don't get me wrong. Like their voice mode, having conversations with it. Like that's the biggest competitor to podcast time in the car for me is just like talking to chat GPT, like with the voice conversation, because I can lead the conversation wherever I want and I can stop it and we can, I can interrupt and go in a different direction completely. We can be talking about code one time, and then I can be asking it about the fourth dimension in the same conversation and just like, it's really fun.

So I've done a little bit of that and I honestly, I just run out of stuff to talk about.

Yeah.

Do you run out of stuff to talk about?

Sometimes. And you're like, I don't know, you catch yourself. Like, you know that if you pause for too long, it's just going to start talking. So you have to like, know what you're saying. Like it's all, it's a different dynamic.

It's just smarter than I am. You know, it's commanding this relationship too much.

That's cool. And I think Sora is cool. Have you guys played with Sora?

Uh, the original, not Sora 2.

Like the, uh, the TikTok?

No, not the social network. You're on there though, right?

I am. And I'm having fun just making like,

Does that integrate with your vision pro at all?

Uh, I haven't tried it.

Go ahead. Tell us what you're, what are you up to over there?

I just make, I put myself into classic movie scenes, which you have to be careful about because you can't like,

Like risky business?

Yeah. Like that. Like, uh, you know, we just did a, an onsite, like a company onsite in San Francisco. And as part of that, like I was part of a group that went to Alcatraz. So of course, before I went, I watched the rock so that I know what I'm looking at. And then I thought, what's the classic scene from the rock. And that's where Nick cage has like the green smoke above him. That's right. He's on his knees. Yeah. So I did that. And we, like, during that, my company work OS, we had done this, um, enterprise ready comp. And so I just like have me holding the green smoke on top of Alcatraz going enterprise readiness achieved. And it's like stupid stuff right now. I have a draft that I haven't posted, which is me as an elf on the shelf. And I'm mischievously running around the house, adding as any to your types, like just doing silly stuff like that.

That's pretty good actually. Oh gosh. I feel like you're like the slop master. This guy's just, you know, we're all concerned about too much slop and he's just out there slapping stuff all over the place. He's embracing the slop. He's not just embracing it. He's spitting it out. He's wearing it. Well, I do expect to see you on Tom Cruise's body with the risky business slide in move by the end of the day.

Done. Podcast art inserted now.

Put that in the show notes. Yeah, totally good stuff. Wow. So Sora, this is Sora too, right? Cause it's not just a thing. It's like a social thing too. Is the social network like actually a thing?

It is sort of, I don't know. I don't look at it, but what do you do with your videos?

Just show them to your kids.

Uh, I download them. No, I do not show them to my kids. I made that mistake.

Specifically do not show them to your kids.

I have a six year old and I, I made a video of me crashing a motorcycle. Um, and I sent it, I was going to send it to my mom as like, uh, you know, could I trick her into thinking I got a motorcycle or something, which is really dumb. Cause it has like professional camera angles of me falling off of this motorcycle, which is like, anybody would know that. Right. But I, I showed it to my, my six year old and he started crying cause he didn't like to see me get hurt. And I'm like, oh, he can't tell that this isn't real. Uh, so I don't know. That's that's done.

His slop detector is not advanced yet.

Yes. Yes. It got me thinking like, you know, that's, that was a blind spot to me before, but now like, got to be careful raising kids in the same way.

This is why they think you're a very important man. They're like, my dad's in all these movies.

Uh, I do like the idea of that. Like, it's like what you're saying. You can't, this is a battle you can't win. Right. Trying to say like, oh, we shouldn't have this. Like the toothpaste is out of the tube now. So it's there. So I do think that it's a good idea that Sora exists as this Tik TOK like slider where you're not crit critiquing every video and being like, is this AI? Yes. Every video on there is AI. So you just get to have fun with it.

Yeah.

As opposed to like, you know, bringing those over to other ones, like, like Tik TOK or reels.

That was my take last week, telling Adam, it's cool. At least they're trying to hide it. Where I get offended is when they're trying to pass it off as real. And then I find out it's not, that's when I get offended. But over there, it's like, this is all AI.

So you see that on like reels, like there's people who act like, try, it puts like a Sora watermark that bounces around on there, people try and remove that and you can like catch it pretty easily, but yeah, like, come on that I saw some tweet that was like, you know, that, that thing is like the fat holding the fabric of society together, that little watermark.

Oh, sure.

Believe that.

Yeah, to a certain extent. Yeah. The question is, when will the other models catch up the ones that you can run on your commodity hardware and build these things akin to what open AI can do without the Sora watermark, you know, at that point, the fabric of society won't be held together quite so well. Right. Yeah, it's getting close.

But the point I was trying to make with Sora and their conversation thing and all of that is, and then like, there's, there was, I don't actually like look at the news, but I saw some headline about Sam Altman pausing their ads push to focus more on making chat GPT better because their lunch is being eaten alert.

He called it a red alert.

I'll believe it for, I'll believe that for sure. But that's like my point, like this, you know, they market themselves as like a $6 trillion company or whatever, and they're, they're, they're chasing ads. They're chasing Google and meta into ads. They're making a social network. Like that's where AGI is going. That's where they're focusing their time. Meanwhile, and Tropic is just eating the enterprise because cloud code is just amazing. And, and then I don't know what Google's doing, but they're doing something. Nano banana is really nice and Gemini three, but that was good for a weekend. And like, they're just being eaten. And I think that anthropic is like the, I don't know, the one to watch right now, because cloud code, it's just so good. It's a good interface. I'm coming here to shill cloud code, I guess.

Well, I think you can't help it. Right? Like it, it is, it has earned its right to be schlepped in this way to not be negative about it because it is, it's the winner it's the daily driver for most people now I do dabble, we have friends over at augment code. I like Augie. We have friends over at source graph. I like amp, but those are consumers of anthropic. So they're just derivatives really, but they do some cool stuff. Did you guys see the news?

Hmm.

No source graph and amp have parted ways. What they have split into two companies.

Yeah, it makes sense.

Amp is its own company now led by Quinn and being beyond and source graph is its own company now led by somebody who I don't know their name, but they are now the CEO. And so it's two separate entities, two boards, but the same investors. So there's some, there's obviously crossover, but they've just decided to probably for investment reasons and stuff like that. I don't know.

You know, I was at an AI conference last week in New York and the amp booth was two away from our booth and it was just amp, but I think it did say by source graph but had this cool amp logo. I just held up the book cause I met Steve and Jean Kim and got the vibe, the vibe coding, but got it signed by them, which is all nice. Yeah.

They had, they kept it up to date cause when they wrote that it was like six months ago. Is it still true?

I know, right? That's, I was excited to tell Steve that I was like, I was on this podcast shortly after him and I was just singing its praise, singing his praises on that.

Oh, you were, you, you listened to it twice or something.

Yeah. Yeah. Very exciting. And then I honestly didn't know that Jean Kim also co-wrote this book and I didn't know at the time that he wrote the Phoenix project, which is an amazing book. So that's cool. Everyone should read the Phoenix project for sure. But like I've been going to a lot of AI events in San Francisco and other places. And one thing that I had noticed that I thought amp was just like following the trend on was that they were amp, not source graph. Like that's how they were marketing. And like at an event a couple of months ago, it was vs code. It wasn't Microsoft. It was vs code was the sponsor. That was the logo. That was everything. No Microsoft naming at all. And I thought that was just like the way that they were, they're going. But that's, that's interesting. I didn't know that they parted ways.

Yeah. They just announced it today. So that's a bleeding news, man. Bidding edge news.

That's right.

December 2nd, 2025. You're already here first release. I did. I didn't catch that news yet. Yeah, man. Wow. Good for them. I think that's smart. I mean, I think that amp was really pushing. I mean, it's my favorite. I just can't afford it. It's, it's my favorite to use. It seems to be expensive no matter how I hold it. So, and, yeah, I just wish I was a little bit more richer. I wish I was a little bit taller. Wish I was a baller. There you go. Uh, cause then I can hold my amp all day long and I would love it. I do think, so I think amp is phenomenal, even though it's using the same models, it's phenomenal at planning. It's also phenomenal execution, but it's phenomenal planning. Like I trust it's planned so much. Consulting the Oracle is just, just a, just a delight, you know, like, I just like saying, you know, this is great. We've been planning this thing, but can you talk to the Oracle about this? Cause like that's who really is going to bless this. Right. They stamp it. Oracle has blessed it. You know? But anyways, the Oracle is cool. Like they're there to their thoughtfulness around the language they use around it is just cool. The handoff, you know, for those of us who have to live under the context window, uh, is just phenomenal. The handoff option, you push control O and you can hand off once you get close to sort of like context completion or I guess, context filling, whatever you want to call that and hand off the prompt and it references the old thread for context, but gets a new fresh context window. I think that's the much better than Claude code's way, which is like, basically your mid something is like, no more for you to stop right there and wait for the context window to come back.

The pro move is like you come to a natural stopping point and compact before moving on. So you control that more.

Yeah. I mean, you might have a bigger window than I got. Cause that's basically impossible to promote that one. I think that's like a chef's kiss moment, a delight. So you find a four leaf clover. It just doesn't happen too often.

You can run slash context in cloud code and it will give you like a little graph of how much context you're using. And if I just spin up Claude and run slash context without giving you anything, I'm at 112,000 tokens, which is trim up that it's that it's the MCP file, like MCP tools, loading in any tools you're using, not that many.

It's like, well, you are MCP is hungry.

It is. And, but that's also an anthropic thing that is open, right? They, they did that. I think the skills are, are where it's at right now. At least I think that the MCP is on its way out and skills or something like it is on its way in because it's just a better way or some kind of tool. Discovery.

Do you have any skills?

I do. I have a whole marketplace. You can get the Nick Nisi official marketplace.

Now we know why he's here. He's you're going to show his marketplace. Okay. Let's hear this marketplace skills.

Oh, like they just have this, you can create a get repo and you put like a marketplace that Jason in it and it can then, and then you can just say like plugin, add marketplace whatever Nick Nisi slash Claude plugins, I think is mine. And then you can like install all of these plugins from me that are like agents or commands or whatever. And it's just a way for me to like move them out of my dot files and into a, a way that you can pick and choose which ones that you actually want.

What are some of the skills you may find there? Yeah. Do you have any nunchuck skills? Any go hunting skills?

I've been talking a lot with, uh, with Chris bone skull, bone skull Hiller. I almost said bone skill because he's skills.

That'd be a good rebrand.

Yeah. We've been going back and forth on this. Cause he's, he's digging really into this as well.

Is he digging into this?

Oh yeah.

Okay.

And the, like one that that's really good is, uh, I have a code simplifier one that like, after we get something working, this just goes through and it tries to like in a way, de-slopify the code. So it's going to remove the comments that no human would actually write. It's going to simplify things. It's going to look for things, but it's, it's going to do it, uh, like around the, the vision that it shouldn't break the exit, like the things that work right now, it should just clean the code up.

Right.

And so that's like a great thing to run.

So I just told my claw to do that at times now, but does your skill have like details about how you want that to happen? Is that what the skill is in there?

Yeah.

Instead of just saying like, Hey, do a pass and just clean everything up. Like it actually has details. Okay. And how do you trigger that then?

I just, it's set up as an agent, a sub agent. So it'll like kick off its own context window and go. So I just say, ask agent code simplifier to simplify this code or something like

can't you give it a cooler name than that? Like, why are you going to call it agent code simplifier? Can you like agent X or something, you know?

Well, because it's in my plug at my marketplace now it's like at Nick Niecy colon essentials slash, I don't know, like, yeah, it's, it's a whole thing now, but, uh, you could call it whatever you want. You could take it and copy it and call it whatever you want. That's that's a cool one. I also made one that is a, um, uh, it's like a consultant, uh, because like, I also want to experiment with these other models and figure out what's what's going on. And so I made a consultant that can do three different things, depending on how you ask it. The first one is you can be like, ah, I don't know. You know, if cloud is like spinning its wheels on something or get stuck, I can be like, ah, that doesn't sound right. Consult with codex and it will go spin off a subagent call, uh, open up codex, uh, CLI as an MCP server and talk to it and ask it to weigh in and then, uh, or it, and it can do that with codex, um, perplexity, grok, Gemini, and maybe it's just Claude, uh, as like a, like a separate subagent club, uh, it can do that. It can also do a, um, like a deep research where it will ask all five of them to do deep research and then it will collate the answers together and give you a result. But then like building on top of that, it can also deliberate where it will ask them all to do the research or to answer a question and it will get all five answers back and then it will give all five answers to all five of them again and be like, grok said this codex said that and have them like whittled down to an answer. And then it's like, Oh, okay. Based on what you want, like Gemini's solution seems to be the best. Right.

You need to get 12 of these set up and then ask them what you should have for lunch, you know, and just go scorched earth on your entire life. Just like how much energy can I use on simple mundane tasks? Like five is not enough. Can I get $1,000 a million dollar question? What should I have for lunch?

You know, have we already talked about this? Cause I've totally done that.

Have you really?

Oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh.

I'm what you might call a picky eater like in like,

So did you, is that part of your context window then like Nick's menu choices?

I was at a lunch or a dinner and it was at some like weird fusion restaurant that nothing looked decent. And so like discreetly when nobody at the table was looking, I just kind of like snapped a picture of the whole menu and asked chat GPT. I'm like, I'm pretty plain. What is like the safest possible thing I could eat on this menu? And it picked it out and it was great.

That's not a bad use. Actually. I thought you were asking the whole quorum, you know, that question, but just chat GPT, that's just one. That's just fine. Go for it. That's what they're there for. You know, those moments in life where you're like, I could just use somebody else to scan this for me and give me some advice here. Good use. Good use. Okay. So you're, you're just clogged coding it up, man.

Oh yeah. Oh, you love it all day.

Now, how much of this is work?

All of it.

It's all work. He's contractually obligated to say that all of it.

I'm currently a team of one. And so I make up for that by having a up to, I think I've had up to 14 cloud code instances running simultaneously and I use a team to manage it all. I built like a little team X floating window dashboard that I can pop up and it shows me like, you know, this project is waiting on a response for me, this project's done and like, it shows me the cloud status of each one.

Do you ever feel like you're babysitting?

Yes. Constantly. It's also the worst when I'm like, when I'm digging into a problem that I don't really know, like a lot about, like, it might be in some weird language that I don't have a lot of context about and I'm working with someone else and they also, I don't know if you've been in the situation yet, but it's like me and another human are having a conversation, but there's a long pause between each one because we're both checking with our AIs before responding to each other. And then our AIs will like contradict each other, but we're the, like the middle persons between it and it's, it just makes me hate this profession that when I'm

doing that, you should just connect the two AIs and get out of the way, you know? Yeah. You're the API between them. What does a team of one do, like you do for WorkOS, like what kind of things are you working on?

I work on all of the SDKs across all of the languages and frameworks. And so it's all open source, which is great. I have no qualms about pasting any code whatsoever into any of these models because it's all in GitHub anyway.

Yeah, no privacy concerns there. What's your mission with the SDKs? Improve them, growth?

Survive is mostly it. No, no. It feels like that sometimes because a lot of work comes in and I'm just like, you know, jumping from, I'll be like doing something in this project and then jumping over to go and jumping back into 10 stack start is like fun, but also not fun right now just because it's new, you know, it's, it's got bugs and it's, it's the RC. So I'm like trying to keep up with what they're doing and it's, it's a time sink. But, uh, yeah, just, you know, keeping things up to date, uh, adding new features, um, supporting new, new like frameworks or, or even new like integrations. Uh, we just like did like a thing with convex. So like you can spin up a new convex project and use work OS auth as, as the author provider for it. And it'll like create a work OS account in the background. Um, and then when you're ready, you can take that over, but that's like a cool integration that we just did.

So there's only one of you and there's only so many hours in the day and really only so much focus to go around. So my question to you is what if you had a teammate who could work just like you with all the context you have, but a little faster, that's what notions new AI agent feels like notion already brings all your notes, all your docs, all your projects into one soon connected space that just works seamless, flexible, powerful, and actually kind of fun to use. But with notion agent, your ad doesn't just help you work. It finishes it. Here's what makes notion agent different. It can do anything you could do in notion. It taps into your workspace, the web, and the connected tools like slack and Google drive to complete assigned actions end to end with a single prompt. It forms a plan, executes it, and we'll even reassess and try again if it hits this night. Now creating new pages, building databases from scratch, summarizing entire projects, it does it too easy. And since it's all inside notion, you're always in control. You tell your agent how to behave. It remembers and updates automatically. Now over 50% of fortune 500 companies use notion and fast moving teams like open AI ramp and Vercel they're using notion too, and we use notion, send less emails, cancel more meetings, stay ahead. It's too easy. So if you're ready to try your new AI teammate, notion agent, head to notion.com slash changelog. Get started there. That's all our case notion.com slash changelog. And of course, when you use our link, you're supporting our show and we love that. And by our friends over at Nord layer toggle ready network security for modern teams. Yes. If you're running a team, whether it's a five person company or a 500 person company, network security should not require a dedicated it department and months of configuration. Nord layer is a toggle ready network security platform that combines VPN access control and threat protection into one easy to use platform, no hardware, no complex setup, just secure connection and full control in less than 10 minutes. The cool part is it's built on the standards of Nord VPN and it's powered by their Nord links protocol based on wire guard. Nord layer is designed for businesses, not consumers. It's based on zero trust architecture. Only the right people have access to the right resources under the right conditions. You get granular control over who accesses what from where and on which device. And the chef's kiss the cherry on top. So to speak, it works on all platforms, windows, Mac, iOS, iOS, Android, and of course my favorite Linux. So the next step is to go to Nord layer.com slash the change log. Yes, Nord layer.com slash the change log. Use our code change log hyphen 28. Yes, the hyphens important change log hyphen 28. Guess what? 20% off Nord layer yearly plans using the code change log hyphen 28. It's valid until December 10th, 2025. Once again, Nord layer.com slash the change log.

So AI coding is a huge part of your life. What about AI browsing?

If we might just turn our sites now on the new browser wars, there's a brand new browser war, according to people in the know, such as the verge writing about browser wars and they're trying to agent our browsers now, Nick, are you agentically browsing?

No, I've not for lack of trying.

Okay.

There's just no, there's no good browser anymore. All of the browsers suck top to bottom.

Really hot. Yeah.

Every single browser, even Safari. I'm currently using Safari as my daily driver, but yes, it's, it sucks because nothing works in it. Everything's like, you should install Chrome for this.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Just a shame. Well, in my, uh, on fedora, I've been using oddly enough, Firefox. It's the default install and it's super fast there. And, uh, I had Claude write down like a, a better user.js file to like lock it down and keep me safe and make it fast and all the good stuff. And it's just browsing. Like it's not a lot of work anyways. So I feel like that's pretty cool. I've been pretty impressed. I would say. I didn't think I would keep using Firefox or the default browser, but I have. Uh, but then on Mac, obviously it's, it's Safari and I really haven't dabbled into as much as I want to. I think it would be a letdown really. I don't think I'm not, I'm not sure I want to like browse the web and constantly have agentic AI summarizing things for me. Like I get the summaries, but there's a time and place for it. And I'm just not sure I need it in my browser on the daily. I don't know when I thought about this conversation though, in this, in the browser wars is like, how will the web change, you know, is the web changing around AI in so far as that we're not really going to websites much anymore. You know, and which kind of websites are we going to? We're just going to like docs and like library landing pages or the latest framework landing page. You know, what kind of websites are actually useful to us? Is it shopping? Is it only shopping? Is it Amazon? Is it only Amazon? You know, I think about my own traffic and it's not, it's weird traffic, you know, it's, I'm not like going to a lot of websites anymore and it's strange.

Okay. This is actually a perfect segue into an experiment. I tried knowing that we were going to talk about this. I opened up chat GPT Atlas. Uh, I have all of them on my, on my machine right now. I've got Atlas. I've got perplexities comment. I've got Dia, that piece of crap. I've got Chrome with Gemini built in and Claude for Chrome and the whole, the whole thing, but, uh, I opened up chat GPT Atlas, uh, and it just so happened that the last time I used that, I had opened up my fathom analytics page. Uh, for my website. So when I opened it up, it brought me right back to that, which is like, was interesting because I hadn't looked at that in a while. And I noticed that like one of the referrers was Claude.ai. And it was specifically to a blog post I have about like, you should try called skills and I was like, oh, cool. Did they link to me? And I was like trying to figure out how to get there and see like if I could find a page where I'm linked or something. And I couldn't. So then I just popped open the, the sidebar in Atlas and said, Hey, I see that they're a referrer here, find the page where this came from and it popped in and it's like, yeah, we'll help you with shopping. And it had like, like, it was just so stupid. Um, and it of course did not find anything. So I don't, I think it might've been like, come up, you know, come up in a Claude answer or something like that, but it totally failed and it jumped right into the, they're, they're failing as like, you know, an actual AI provider. They're just a, a way to sell you ads is the way that I felt as soon as it said, yeah, but to your, your, like your question there, like, where is this all going? I think that this is, this might be like a canary in the coal mine of, of where this is heading in that everything sucks, all the browsers suck right now. And it's like, when I think about other tools that are out there, like, like chat, GPTs, um, whatever they call MCP, um, but like, you know, MCP tools and there's an MCP UI project that like will take, it's, it's a tool that will render a UI for you, uh, in your, your window. So like, you can, you can have a chat and like the, the perfect example I have is like, you're talking to chat GPT and like, you tell it to find you an apartment in San Francisco, uh, with two bedrooms with a room and a room, you know, and with two bedrooms within walking distance of wherever, and it will, and under this budget. And it like loads, like a Zillow page in there, a Zillow map, and you can move around the map right in your chat window. You didn't go to zillow.com. It's like loading that and helping you find it right in the chat there. And then you can have a contextual conversation around that. I feel like that's where things could be going. And like the browsers just not figuring out like where they belong in this is indicative of that being the future. Maybe the future really is just like a chat, like interface for everything.

Yeah. What a shame. That would not be.

Yeah. Right.

Well, so the example was this morning, as I, we were on a call with our friends at Practical AI, and one of the questions we wanted to find out was like, just like what other AI specific podcasts are out there just to see where this show comes up on the map and, you know, I guess, am I okay with this just being a list? I didn't go to any of the sites. I didn't go and check them. And I'm not doing research either, so I don't feel bad about it. But I got my glimpse, you know, of what the web is. And now this is like some weird artifact of what the web is. I didn't go to the websites. I didn't go to the podcast clients. Now down at the bottom, it does say, oddly, this is chat GPT, make a playlist, connect Spotify. Why? Because I had to search about a podcast. You didn't want to make a playlist about pod? No, that's just I don't know. It seems reaching. Just do what you're trying to do. I don't know. I am worried about the web. They're like, what is the web these days?

I don't know. I will say, like I 100 percent go. I use Raycast AI as my Google now. I just pop that up and just go to town asking it questions. I've been getting into Minecraft a lot with my son. And so I'm like asking about obscure Minecraft things. And it's so great. Just like in the middle of the game, I just pop up and be like, hey, where how do I summon this thing or how do I do whatever? And like it tells me right there, I don't have to go to Google. I never go to Google.

You're doing command space and then tab to get there.

That's your option space.

Oh, you don't go command space.

Command space opens regular Raycast option space opens its AI chat window.

Oh, I see. I got that set to something else then. My bad. So you're going to go you go to the Raycast chat app versus the one that just pops up as part of the whatever you call that, the launcher, I suppose.

I guess I could do it right there because it's just you type in whatever and hit tab.

Yeah. Well, when you said like a Google, I was thinking like a simple search interface. And that's the launcher. Right. Which you would get there by going command space and then tab, which gets you right into the ask prompt. Interesting. Yeah. You know, I kind of want AI everywhere I'm at, at like an arm's length. Like I don't want to be in a world, I suppose, as a technologist and a worker and a doer. Like, I guess in my life, I'm hanging out with friends like phones over there. AI is not in the conversation. I'm not saying that. But like in areas where I'm trying to be effective and productive and thinking and researching and those kinds of scenarios, I do want an AI pretty close to me because I don't think of it like an atom replacer, it's more like an atom multiplier. How can I think bigger? How can I see more of the picture first so that I can apply my taste to the path I'm trying to go towards? Not so I could be told what to do. You know, it's all about what is out there. What do I like? Where do my tastes align? And I'm doing my Trump thing here. Gosh, I just realized I'm doing my Trump hands. Sometimes I do a Trump impersonation. I get my anyways out hands down. I am just doing my thing and I got to have the AI near me and I'm finding my stuff and I'm making decisions and going all my way and just having it nearby. How about voice? Have either of you tapped into I suppose you talked about how you talked to it on your car rise, but like in the case, I think we're all still iPhone users. Nick, are you an iPhone user still yet?

Absolutely. I just have a vision. I've got a vision pro.

I just never know. You're trading side so much dabbling and everything. You may have gone to the dark side to enjoy it. Who knows? But let's all assume the three people in this proverbial podcast room here use an iPhone. The one thing I think missing from my life is where I can say, hey, you know what? And in my case, it's Siri. No, not right now. I want to talk to Siri about what can happen here or something like it. More so to maybe automate things around my life. I feel like that's the next human frontier that is just like simple. We should have that. It should be a thing. We should have that right. And it's not here yet. And I'm wondering if there's a dark side to this. Is there a reason why these voice assistants aren't doing it yet? Maybe it will break the world. I don't know. What do you think?

There's a podcast. I don't remember which one, but they were talking about this and about how, you know, somebody left iOS and went to Android or went to not Android, went to the the very special Alexa. Sorry, but triggers like, you know, the one that you can pay a bunch in it and then it can it's basically an agentic Alexa. And it would like like at the end of it, it would do things and it would say that it was doing things correctly, but then it wouldn't actually do them all the time, 100 percent of the time. And it's because like the disconnect between understanding the conversation and translating that into actual actions around your house is still like a gap that is not quite solved.

It's where I think Home Assistant might be the frontier that like Home Assistant now is. I was just doing some research on this because I was just from the nerves conversation we had, Jared, with Losh Vickman coming out soon is was really just around embedded Linux. I'm really obviously I'm a Linux nerd and I'm just dabbling as much as I can just for curiosity around Linux. And I think it's just cool, like what you can do with embedded Linux, what you can do with nerves. And it came up to I was like, OK, how can I do I think it's called Root Project. Was it called Root Build? Root Build so you can do like your own embedded Linux kernel kind of thing. And I was like, well, what could you do around Root Build and Home Assistant? Because that's where I have just natural curiosity. And now Home Assistant has their own flavor called Home Assistant OS, which is one of the preferred ways. They actually sell an appliance now. So they're this open source project behemoth really to automating home things. Everything's integrated into it. And now they have their own appliance, which just has Home Assistant OS on it. Like, I think the frontier is like, can you get something to talk to that? Well, and I haven't dabbled. So somebody else is like, and it already exists. Shut up. Let me come on your pod and I'll tell you. But that's where I'm as like this Home Assistant. Is that the ties that the connection for this next this next wave could be?

I think that the pieces are there and there's like the the rumors, I guess. I forgot the Apple guy that that always breaks rumors. But the Gemini is going to power the next version of Siri. Just super interesting. And I hope so, because Siri is so bad. But the underpinnings are bad for her, man.

It's like I asked her the day I was like, are you sad, Siri? Say why? Because they just they've just not taken care of you, you know? Well, I'm cool with it.

The head of AI just stepped down yesterday. I think John Giannandrea.

Well, I saw Google come in with Gemini. He's like, I'm out. Good job.

There was rumor that that they were going to buy Anthropic or like integrate with Anthropic. I think integrating would be great. Buying. Oh, that'd be the worst.

Don't buy it. Gosh, yeah. Please don't know. Let it do its own thing, OK? No acquisitions for that company. Be the leader. Be the innovator. Drive it. Drive it. Go.

But you know, the what's there today, if you really look for it, it's actually pretty powerful. As I as I'm slowly learning like there, there's the chat GPT underpinnings where you can like you can have it like relay your query that you give to Siri to chat GPT and it can sometimes do it. I literally asked it to play a song in my car and it somehow like sent that to chat GPT and then chat GPT just came back and said, I can't play music. It was so, so bad. But the underpinnings are there. And if you've ever have you ever played with the shortcuts app?

Yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, just don't know it exists.

There is a ton of power in there right now, because specifically they have a bubble that you can drag in that is send this input to chat GPT. Here is a prompt. Get some output and do stuff with it. And you can have triggers and the triggers can be like when a mail message comes in. And so I just set one up to where whenever a mail message comes in from GitHub and it has a PR number or an issue number in the subject, it takes that message, sends it to chat GPT, summarizes it, gets the link out of it, and then it like creates a new to do. Make sure that the to do doesn't exist already and sends it to OmniFocus to put it in my inbox so that I only have one inbox to check for those things.

I'm questioning if you actually do any work for work OS at this point. I was just over here thinking this is a really sophisticated code monkey. I mean, yeah, just he's just taking PRs right out of the email goes right into my to do list. Just just send to me. I'm going to put it right away to send them to Claude Code for Web

and Claude makes a PR. That's the next step of it is like it won't even like put it in my to do list. The to do will be review the PR that Claude just put up for this issue. That could be something that you could do.

And then you said Omni was OmniFocus, is that right? I thought that was a relic. Are they not? I know they're there, but like I didn't think people still used it.

I have tried so hard to leave. I have.

Sure, you share your gel cell. What does it feel like having a Stockholm syndrome? I do.

It's so bad. I try to leave every single to do app. They don't have this one feature that OmniFocus just has and has had forever. And that's this concept of defer dates. So I can put something in and put all of the like flag it and do whatever, but say I don't care about this until next Monday. And then it will not show up in any of my automated lists until it's ready until next Monday. So I can just like set it and forget it and be assured that it's going to resurface onto my radar when I can actually work on it, because I'm not going to work on it today. And I do that with every every single task.

I defer everything I'm working on anything today. It's a really sophisticated way of avoiding work is what you're doing. MG, are you checking what he's doing, dude? Are you checking? I'm like a Greenwich, by the way. That's kind of wild. So I kind of want I kind of want to like just have a separate session on this podcast where you just show me how you do your OmniFocus stuff. I just get a neat dive into like, could you do like an anonymized version so you can like show us your world, but like not obviously show us your world? Is that possible?

I can try for sure.

Or can you just show us your world and you're cool with it? Yeah, sanitize your world first.

Yeah, it's like 90 percent GitHub issue stuff, which is all public anyway. So, yeah, I do that.

I'm really curious about that because I've I've been I've been a things user. Yeah, I've been a Todoist user. And more so recently, a Todoist user only because I'm multi platform now, not just Mac. And things is Mac only. And obviously I love Mac, but I can't. There's things to do on wherever I'm at.

And so blame them for your mistakes.

I don't know. So I guess in that case, then to OmniFocus would not be on on Linux because OmniFocus is not Linux native, are they? They're not Linux. You can't leave the garden. You have to be inside the wall garden in order to enjoy the garden. You can't take the garden with you.

They have OmniFocus for Web, but you can't even like reliably scrape that because everything is like super encrypted.

Well, anyways, OK, see, that's the thing, too, is is like Mac traps you, I guess I'm not even says like I love this machine. I've got I don't I can't count the amount of tabs I have open. And then there's a whole separate safari behind that. This got the same amount of tabs and I've got too much open. QuickTime still open from something that was just doing before this. And like this thing is not crashing. I can leave this thing on for 75 years and it's just a machine. It's the bomb. I love it. But Linux is cool. There's a lot of things you can do on Linux. So I don't know. And this really world where I like Mac, but I also love Linux.

Are you doing the Amarchi thing with Linux?

No. OK, no, I think that's dumb. And if you're using Amarchi, shame on you. Enough for the reason you think. Just kidding. I don't know. I'm just I'm just being silly. You do what you want out there. OK, I'm just I'm just joking around. You know, I think I'd be surprised if Amarchi has this weird cult following. It just seems such a weird thing. Even using it, I'm like I'm using DHH's operating system, not an operating system for developers, which I guess you could say it's a derivative of that. But it feels so much like slapped around with his stuff. I'm not necessarily negative about the guy, nor positive. I'm a centrist when it comes to him, not for or against necessarily. And there's a lot of people who feel it's pleasing to politics, but I'll leave that aside. My choice to not use it is not because of like a belief in him or not. I just feel like it's super opinionated and not my opinions. And I feel like I'm like hanging out in someone else's toy box and they're not my toys. It's not cool. So that's how I feel.

I haven't looked into that specifically, but like everything that I feel like everybody touts about that system and like the opinions that it makes. Yeah, I just do on my Mac and it works like I use a title window manager. It's amazing. I use Neovim, obviously. It's amazing. It's a Markdown editor or Markdown reader still for me. But it's good at that.

How do you feel about Zedd? Does Zedd like ever get a spot in your life as an editor?

There's other editors. I'm a very important man. I can't be wasting time.

It's on his license plate. You can't switch editors at this point. You'd have to go re-license his car. Well, you had to at least have an opinion about it.

Yeah, that it's trash.

Gosh, dang. I don't think it's trash at all personally. I think it's one of the best editors out there.

I have never looked at it. I've heard good things. Yeah, I feel no reason to switch out of Neovim. Like there is nothing I'm missing with Neovim with a cloud code instance and a teamwork split next to it. There is nothing. That's the exact thing I want.

He's also carrying around a large quantity of sunk cost fallacy because Nick has spent hours and hours, how dare you, days getting his Neovim set up and he can't just waste that time. The time was well spent unless he switches off of him, in which case it was a complete waste.

I learned Lua.

There you have it. That's the smoking gun right there. This guy uses one index, you know, array languages just for them. Hilarious. I'm just not feeling any of the wanderlust that you're having at him or or even the browser situation or the web. I'm over here looking at my web history as you guys talk. And I'm just like, I go to tons of websites. I don't use very many apps. If you look at my history, I'm just like everything's pretty much the same as it was five years ago. Except for less Google searches like I'm I am going to turn to an AI first. I still end up on dot dot go a lot, just looking for a web page or something. I can just find it faster than they can. But I'm not feeling like the web is very much different from. And then I'm like, well, maybe I'm a dinosaur. So that's where I'm sitting right now. I'm with you on that. I mean, I just said how many tabs I have open. They're not the same website.

But you were before you were lamenting how we don't go to websites anymore. I'm like, I've been to hundreds of websites this week and it's only Tuesday.

Well, I was lamenting in that scenario where you're finding research and I didn't follow through from the research to go to those places. But in the meantime, I've got Fedora Linux 43 is here up as a tab. I've got Home Assistant OS here is our Home Assistant OS is. Yeah, I guess there's a tab open there. CapCut, GitHub, obviously website. Yeah, I got oh, gosh, I got to do this. A parkour registration. My son is in parkour. I got to complete that mission. The Omni is now here in my tab, you know, hardcore parkour. It's it was it's it's actually a no. I don't know what you mean by that hardcore parkour.

That's off The Office. That's a clip from The Office.

Oh, sorry. Oh, yes. I see. Yes. I didn't track your pick up.

Twelve of my 14 tabs are GitHub. And then I have one Codeberg tab and I have one with the button blog post that I didn't read.

See, you know, browse differently. I still go to a lot of websites. It's just I worry about the web if we're trying to like it in the browser and every website is just a summary of itself. Like, what does that do? Like, how does that change the web? That's what my my real concern is, not that I don't get enough websites anymore. I still go to tons. But how does this shift change what the web will be? That's my, I suppose, curiosity.

Yeah. Everyone has to start thinking like if you want. Nobody goes to Google, right? Do we know that these elements are indexing in the same way that a search engine would? So a search engine optimization, the best thing, especially if you have like a product that you want to sell and you want people to notice it. If A.I. is not recommending you, you're doomed. Like, how do you get around that? And how do you how do you start a new project? You know, like Tanner Lindsley can start Tans Tech Start and he's got enough clout that he can bypass that. But if I was going to start, I don't know, very important man. Dot com.

Teach your business.

Yeah. Like, how would I how would I do that?

How would I launch on the changelog podcast like you are right now? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, would you start? You know, this is the Neelay Patel question that he asks all the time on Decoder and other of his shows, which is like, do you start a website today? Like if you're starting a new business, do you even start a website or do you start with a TikTok or do you start with a code burger account? Like, what do you do? And I don't know the answer to that. I guess it depends on what kind of website you want to start. What kind of business do you want to start? It seems like when it comes to e-commerce, the web still has a foothold, mostly through Shopify and then also through Amazon.

But see, it would take like Shopify is in a perfect position because they're like effectively thousands of little stores. Right. Right. One MCP UI like tool. And now you can shop any Shopify site from any L.M. that you're talking to and have like a rendered thing where you're picking out, you know, your your favorite shirt from there and ordering it all straight through this UI that is dynamically rendered at the time that you asked for it and didn't exist before that.

That's interesting as a thought experiment. Yeah, a lot of things happen just in time now that you didn't have to before. And I'm actually like, throw that code away. Yeah, I don't care. You can generate it again. Who cares? I think it's it's the things that were once coveted are kind of ephemeral in a way. Yeah. And that's a weird feeling because it wasn't that way before. And I was like, oh, OK, I'll just try it again. You know, new thought, new research, new thing, same output, similar adventure. Now, if you're knee deep in a whole full on product you build or something like that, it's different. But if it's like one sliver of something, OK, not the worst thing ever to have lost that or to throw it away or to spike it and try again.

What if for some reason some LLM like perplexity for some reason favored this one blog post that said changelog sucks and like that's what it repeats to people like.

Yeah, that would then we sue them for libel. But finish your finish your thought, though. What was your thought? Is that was that it?

I'm just I don't know where to go from there, but like it's what you're thinking about now, right? Like how do you counteract that? There's it's like just a mystery right now. How to do all of this. And I feel like we're just clinging to the vestiges of SEO as like the cornerstone of that and building.

But even that was a mystery that Google would come out once every six months and say we were changing the algorithm. And then like all of the SEO gurus would like go into their little labs and they would test things that come out and they'd sell you something that said, put this in your website and you'll be rich, you know? I don't know if that necessarily changes materially from what it has been. It's just a different area. Same different poops, same pile, no different pile. Same poop. What's that saying?

I don't know. Same smell, different poo.

I think the same technically is same different day, but I misapplied it. I miss I misapplied it.

That stuff changes our behavior. And that's something interesting to look into. Like like one thing that is freaking terrible is this whole trend of I'm going to mention something, but I'm not going to link to it. And then I'll have like a follow on or a comment. The first comment is the link to it. Just it's the worst. And like if you do that, but if you're going to play the game,

are you going to play the game or not?

I know that's the problem. I've done it before.

So am I. It changes your it changes the way you live your life.

But then every time I see it, I'm like, I hate the person that did that because they're playing the game that I've also played.

I have an answer for us, Nick. I have an answer. It's called meshtastic. Here's what we do. We set up a mesh network between your house and my house, and we just connect our lands together. And we just, you know, we internet between the two houses and maybe anybody else in the region that wants to join. And we start our own little splinter net where we make the rules.

I like this. You like this? This this can't go wrong.

You put your link right there in the. Yeah, this never goes wrong. We move out to a mountain somewhere and we start our own little commune. Like that's basically where you end up.

Right. Unless you're just going to embrace, extend and enjoy. That's right. This is where we started.

Is there any prediction you may have, Nick? You're just so full of exploration and some discovery, I suppose. You have opinions. Do you have any predictions for obviously this next year? We're at the end of the year. Hmm.

Yeah. I think that like the code, the code that we're writing is if you're still writing a lot of code, you're going to write less next year. I think that that's a given at this point.

I think there's more.

You're going to produce more, but you're going to write less. You're going to be involved less in the day to day minutia of the code. There's ways around that to be as productive. I think like one thing. I don't know. You asked for a prediction. I guess that's my prediction. Can I give you a recommendation of something to try?

You can do what you want. All right.

So I'm talking about cloud code, because if you're because that's the one that I use the best the most. But you could probably do this with the other ones. But Claude has this thing called output styles that they deprecated. And then they got pushback on that. And so they undeprocated it. And so it's still here, at least for right now. But it's a way to change the system prompt a little bit so that you can tell it exactly how you want it to respond to you. And it ships with two examples. One of them is explanatory, where it'll give you like a little insight bubbles about why it's making a decision that it made or whatever. And the other one is learning. And that learning one is specifically for, you know, I want to go learn the go programming language. And so when you have that enabled, it's going to optimize for you to fill out like some of the more like, oh, it'd be good for you to learn how to do loops in go. So I'm going to step out this method and you're going to fill it in. And it'll give you prompts and tell you how to how to do it in like code comments. And then you can it'll pause there and have you do it. But you can ask questions before moving on. You can tweak that you make as many output styles as you want, but you can tweak that and you can tweak it to be more of like a a business logic one. I forgot what I exactly call mine. It's like, yeah, I can't remember what I call it, but you can tell it to basically fill out the minutia of the code, like stub out this method, add the getters and setters and all that stuff that is boring. You know, just get the work done, work, have it do that. But then like the core business logic stuff, pause and let me do that. And we'll talk about it and walk through it together. And you can even do most of it, maybe. But like that way, you're more involved in what the code is actually doing. You're stopping to take part and participate, because otherwise the code is just scrolling by you. And then, you know, already, like in the past, you know, six months go by and I have no idea what code I wrote six months ago that I have to go debug. It's like that week to week now with all of this code. So if you're not keeping yourself involved in it, then you don't really have a solid footing like mentally on what what code is passing by you and that your name is being attached to because it's still your name on the commit. So use that to be involved. And that's a good way to like have the AI optimize for you, doing the fun parts and it doing the minutia.

So this the way you get there is how you do output style. Yep. And it's called Researcher?

No, the one I let me I forgot what it was called.

Oh, that's right. You forgot what it's called. Is it in your plugins?

It's in my doc files because the marketplace doesn't allow for output styles.

OK, put that in your readme or something like that. Same place, but outside the loop.

Mine's just called important stuff.

Gosh. Oh, man. Well, that's cool. That is cool. Yeah, that's true because you're producing more code than you probably ever had before. It's wizened by you. It's like, yeah, that checks out. That checks out. But do you really code review every single line where you know for sure it represents, you know, your beliefs or I guess your coding beliefs?

I personally try to. And that's because all of the code I write professionally is on open source on GitHub. And so, yeah, I don't want to like I don't want my company or me to have this reputation that I'm just like slopping out this code. I want it to have my seal of approval on everything. And so, yeah, I try and stay on top of every line of it and understand that I'm on the commit message. I'm the one blamed in the game.

Yeah. Well, let's push pause right there, then, because I want to do a special plus plus anchoring off that. And so if you're listening now and you're not a plus plus subscriber, well, the reason why you do is because you get this little bonus from Nick. Hopefully it's good and it's worth your money. But change.com slash plus plus. It is better. Ten bucks a month, hundred bucks a year. Go behind the scenes with us. Dig in. And there you go. So anything else, any other predictions that you want to share, Nick, or anything else that you want to tease before we end this, friends?

We're not going to achieve AGI next year.

Next year. I will have you know that.

Who's this we you're talking about? Humanity.

OK, I'm not participating in any way. So a little mention here at the end, Terminator one and two was on sale for Black Friday 4K Blu-rays. You know, I have Plex. I love it. Theater, all that good stuff. And I'm so excited because I haven't had a chance to rip it yet, but I'm going to rewatch for the first time, probably 20 years, Terminator one and two, which, in my opinion, are the best Terminator movies there are of the Terminator, of course.

Right. Yeah. You're not including three.

Three is probably pretty good. Forget it. You know, I don't even know. Honestly, it's probably was a judgment day. Yeah, that's second. That was two.

Right. Yeah. Judgment is two. Yeah.

Yeah. Rise of the machines or what's three called? It was trash. That was a Terminator three. Trash day. I don't know.

The trash rises again.

Yeah, exactly. But two is amazing. And one's also very good.

That's part of my decision.

That's a classic. Did you do that on Sora? Was that Sora? Are you actually doing that?

That'll be the next one. Yeah.

We have to clip that, first of all. And secondly, I have to tell our listener who's not watching that Nick just slow melted into the liquid hot magma, was it, with a thumbs up, just like Arnold did in Terminator two to two or one? I don't know. It was two. It was two. That's right. He did melt. He melted into. So my plan in December is to rewatch those movies, but in 4K, in HDR with a fantastic sound system, very large compared to how I watched it originally was probably on like a 19 inch RCA, you know, analog TV or something like that. Right. Just guessing. Or maybe one of those TVs you had as furniture in your living room, one of those. I might have watched it on that as a VCR, probably from VHS tape. Oh, my goodness. So there you go date myself. But Blu-ray for the win. 4K Blu-ray. Well, that was a holiday plan if you still like it. Yeah, I will. I will.

Nick, thanks for bringing us all your whatever this has been the last 90 minutes.

It's been awesome. Thank you.

It's a lot of fun. It always is.

Bye, Nick. Bye, friends. Bye, friends. So it was a grab bag of fun conversations. Of course, it's always good to have Nick in the house. Nick as a friend. Nick, Nick, Nick, or should I say very important man. My gosh, that's so cool. Vim is cool, but very important man per a child is it's pretty funny, honestly. It's pretty funny. OK, stick around because we do have a plus plus segment for you. Of course, it's better. Yeah, it is better. changelog.com slash plus plus ten bucks a month, hundred bucks a year. Bonuses just for you just in time for the holidays. Unwrap it. Enjoy it. And you're welcome. Of course, a big thank you to our friends and our partners over at Fly. Our friends at Tiger Data, our friends at Namespace, our friends at Notion. And of course, our friends at Nordlair. Check them out. They support this show and we appreciate you for doing so. All right. The show's done. We'll see you on Monday. Give me the details. Give me the specifics. You're in cloud code and you're working on something for Work OS and you're really writing a feature. What is your flow? How do you truly, you know, pay attention to the code? Give me the very, very detailed visual exactly what's happening. Paint it as best you can.

OK, so I will say I do a lot of experimenting. So I play around with I've been playing around with Stevie thing as a beads, I think. Yeah. Looking at that, I've been looking at GitHub, GitHub's thing, Specify, and I just do my I rolled my own as well. And the problem with rolling your own is you have to maintain it. And as things models get better, are you still using the best practices? Like, I just don't want to chase that constantly. So that's why I'm like experimenting with other ones, because then they can go chase it and I can just reap the benefits. But I have been playing around with that. Also, Opus four point five. I don't know if this is an Opus thing specifically, but like their planning mode is different now and it's a lot better. It asks you questions. Yeah, like it asks you questions in like an interface. It saves that off to a dot like in your home directory, dot cloud slash plans. And then it gives it a random name for the plan. But it's there as a markdown file. And I noticed that and it was asking me to do all of these things. It was saying like run slash plan. It kept telling me that yesterday run slash plan. So plan does not exist. So it's like giving me a preview, I think, of what's to come. But I play around with all of those. So a feature comes in if it's like a GitHub issue. I have it like I have a command that I run to have it read the issue. And it's usually like, let's look at like, is this a legitimate thing? And so if it is like it'll run through that and be like, oh, yeah, I see that. It's on this line of code where I think the problem is. And that's like how I do a lot of reactive stuff is like that. But I don't just trust it and say like, oh, yeah, that's it. I have like example apps and I that are just like vanilla. You know, they have work OS off get set up in them or whatever. And I just have them. I'm like, OK, let's create a test page in that app. And you can do like slash add der and have it work in multiple directories at the same time.