Git with your friends (remastered)

Welcome to changelog and friends a weekly talk show about dan tan dan tan dan tan Thanks as always to our partners at fly to io the public cloud built for developers who ship We love fly you might too learn more at fly to io. Okay, let's talk What's up friends? I'm here with kyle gallbreath co-founder and ceo of depot Depot is the only build platform looking to make your builds as fast as possible But kyle this is an issue because github actions is the number one ci provider out there But not everyone's a fan explain that I think when you're thinking about github actions

It's really quite jarring how you can have such a wildly popular ci provider and yet it's lacking some of the basic Functionality or tools that you need to actually be able to debug your builds or deployments

And so back in june, we essentially took a stab at that problem in particular with depo's github action runners What we've observed over time is effectively github actions when it comes to like actually debugging a build is pretty much useless The job logs in github actions ui is pretty much where your dreams go to die like they're collapsed by default They have no resource metrics when jobs fail You're essentially left playing detective like clicking each little drop down on each step in your job to figure out like, okay

Where did this actually go wrong? And so what we set out to do with our own github actions observability is essentially we built a real observability Solution around github actions. Okay, so how does it work all of the logs by default for a job that runs on a depot? GitHub action runner their own collapsed you can search them you can detect if there's been out of memory errors

You can see all of the resource contention that was happening on the runner So you can see your cpu metrics your memory metrics not just at the top level runner level But all the way down to the individual processes running on the machine and so for us

This is our take on the first step forward of actually building a real observability solution around github actions So that developers have real debugging tools to figure out what's going on in their builds

Okay friends you can learn more at depot.dev get a free trial test it out instantly make your builds faster So cool again depot.dev What up nerds jared here bringing you a remaster during these dog days of august This episode was originally recorded back in february of 2023 when changelog and friends was just a twinkle in our eye In fact, this episode was the proof of concept for the format So we are bringing it to the friends feed as a remaster and for the first time ever in video form on youtube

So you can see all the ridiculous faces that matt makes along the way. Okay, let's get with our friends recently

We've been overwhelmed by a lot of the crazy super cool tools Innovation and just stuff that people have been doing in and around git whether it's the git project itself or tooling built around it It feels like there's something new every single week in changelog news So we thought we'd get together with our friend matt ryer Who also happens to be a co-host of the go time podcast and of grafana. It's a big tent Podcast which is an award-winning podcast it is Yeah, even though and go time is an award-worthy podcast And we thought we would just introduce some of these tools and ideas to everyone and just talk about them

So matt, thanks for being here. Oh, thank you very much. I use git a lot Uh, so i'm very keen to learn more about this would you say daily or weekly, uh, depends if it's every day or every week

Okay, explain. Yeah

Well, if you want to say something happens once a day you'd say daily But if it only happens once every seven days i'd probably opt for weekly

So is it daily or weekly one more time? Is it daily or weekly?

Sorry That should have been clear just not at the same time. Gotcha. Well, the confusing one is bi-weekly

Yes, that can both mean twice. That's true. And once every other two different meanings who invented that phrase

Yeah, it's not good. Is it we have fortnightly as well as a term. I like four nights

I do find the game with the phrase Right the game kind of soiled the phrase if you ask me the word. Yeah Because now there's two contexts

Yeah, quake did that to me. I used to love quakes and then

You still like earthquakes And now you like that it's a game. It's like the oldest game in the world though, isn't it? It's like it's right up there with uh, duke nuke long

Yeah, we used to play on like in school We had a LAN party and quake 2 was the game we played and then I used to make levels with my brother using world craft Uh 3d world builder thing and it was so much fun. Yeah to be able to like Build levels and then play them with your mates was just could you believe you could do that?

These land parties. Did you take a router with you or a router with you? And did you pick up your entire gigantic tower pc and take it with you like describe? Yeah

Well, luckily these were in the school library. So, um Yeah, because we didn't yeah, you wouldn't move your computer around back then. It's not like now with your phone like You know, come you can't really believe the internet is your land Yeah, exactly so cloud

That would be dangerous if the whole internet was all on one land Wouldn't we be? pretty exposed Well, yeah. Yeah for sure. Nats are nice Yeah again, two contexts for nats, especially when you're just saying the word out loud Yeah, let's loop back to git How often do you use git matt?

or daily daily or weekly

Well, this is interesting because you haven't been coding this much lately

Hmm

This is a change for you. Don't out him jared. Maybe not recently. Well, no offense. I want to ask him for permission first No offense Is this is that private information that you you're more of a leader now?

Well, i'm hoping to get one day promoted back to being an ic so I can do work again Um, yeah, so I don't use git but honestly I kind of like git was always really complicated to me and I was like Oh, there's so much you can do and it's really quite complicated So I try to always just use the absolute minimum that I could get away with with it um And so that's why I quite like to get flow that used to give you like that a workflow where you could you know, give you a reason to create a branch you do your work then you merge it back in and um yeah, so I always would err on the side of Keeping it as simple as possible because there's so much you can do with git

And so we're going to talk through some of these tools and as we go one of the things that's interesting to me obviously not do you use these tools because unlikely because there's so many things and you like to keep it simple, but Having looked at it seeing what it does thought about it a little bit like are these things that we you me adam might adopt Might try or is it just a cool? kind of Triviality that's neat to look at and then move on. So let's let's dive into it a little bit let's look at the first one which It's got that visual aid it's called git heat map and this a re this immediately reminded me of like daisy disk or these tools where they they Search your hard disk And they show you where the big files are and they kind of put a map out Of wherever the big files are where most of your storage is across the the span of your disk only this is doing it On your git repo

Is it still file size? That is representing

Is based on diff activity So it's using like it's showing you kind of like what do you call it? lines of code that are That churn a lot or like the hot files So it's based on the history and you can also do it to limit to certain users and stuff in the history So the example that is out there and the image is provided is on c python Which is a you know a project that has a long history of commits And it's highlighting the files that guido van rossum changed the most And so it shows you a layout of that and like, you know, bright red is obviously the hottest which is configure And then the doc folder and then test and lib so some of these things are kind of I don't know They're the ones that you would guess But I wonder if there's actually insights that you'd find like holy cow this particular file, which I found over time in certain repos, there's like certain files that are the really active ones And lots of people touching that file and there's other ones that you know actually config is kind of Surprising to me, but maybe inside python it's

Different than what i'm thinking of so you've got the you've got two dimensions here, though You've got the size of the box and you've also got the color of how red it is So do we know what they are? What what's the size mean? And versus the what's the you know, the color is obviously the most changed I guess so but what makes something bigger or smaller? Or is it also just the same thing? It might be by look by the look of it

Well, it says you can choose the hue that you want the chart to use for highlighting Highlighting what that's probably like the size of the maybe the activity Uh, maybe this is something you can actually fine-tune what it actually is representing. I find tools like this are like Exactly. How do you use them? What makes them insightful? Like is it an individual using it is a is a engineering manager sort of looking at you know to sort of get Because they're they're less than the code. Maybe you can speak to this mac because you're less than the code lately You're less in the details. And so maybe you use something like this as a way to sort of like grok the bigger picture, you know Maybe this is great for a presentation to you know, the linux kernel for example, and you're at linux conf I don't even know if it's a real thing or not But like some sort of conference focus on linux like how how fast is linux moving? What is changing within the linux kernel who's doing it, etc?

Yeah, I can't imagine the amount of stress that goes on trying to do the presentations at linux conf though Like trying to just connect to the projectors with linux machines. No, thanks. But yeah, it's an absolute shame

We have to use the non-free Uh, you know packages and whatnot to do that. So that may be against the rules to the conference even like Yeah, somebody's like a super free software person. They're like no way man

Yeah, i'm gonna use it I went to fosdem recently and uh, that's obviously open source, uh, they're kind of allergic to having Anything that's not open source focused of course there But it's pretty nice But one use case I could think for the git heat map is to make sure that you are You have good test coverage on the things that are changing the most Because in a way that's where you need more stability Right the way you're changing the most so I feel like a kind of mashup of that and Test coverage could be very useful to see Are we definitely covering these things that we are editing all the time?

Yeah, maybe I can also see it when you're coming to a new project that's existed for a long time And you're just trying to familiarize yourself with the project who's working on what? Yeah, and which files are working on the most so I did look up the way that this thing works And so it's a two-step process so it basically scans through the entire git history using git log And it takes that history and compiles a few database tables Which tracks files commits? The author and then the relationships between those things And then the second step is taking that database Querying it to create the tree map and the query is based on both the size of the file and then the total Number of changes to the file, so there's two dimensions And so the color I think is based on how hot it is mean how often it changes and you can limit that to certain authors like I said And the size of it in the actual tree map is how big the file is or the folder structure is I think I would only use it in that Context as I would if i'm like new to a team and I have a repo maybe it has years in history I want to quickly familiarize myself with it. You know running the test is a good first start And then maybe just throw in this thing in there depending on how long it takes to operate, you know You can get a tree map real quick I know i've also done like clock c o l c loc Count the lines of code and that will spit out Kind of a report on a project of how many lines of code there are In each kind of programming language like how much html there is how much css how much is python? And that also helps you familiar familiarize yourself pretty quickly Hmm other than that it just looks cool and so

Uh, it's probably fun to build so on that then is how do you feel about like the fact that it looks cool? Is that a good enough reason for you to have it in because to be honest like although it's maybe if it Even if it was just an aesthetic thing, I feel like sometimes that's okay. Like it's like no, this is nice to look It's nice to have we we think it's cool. If we I don't know we kind of like it. We feel good about it Is that a good enough reason jared or you're like no give me facts

That was good enough for me. I mean I put it on changelog news. I'm like this thing's cool You know, sometimes it's just like surely this person by the way, uh written by jonathan foresight So shout out to jonathan well done. Jonathan. He's probably just you know scratches on it He probably thought this doesn't exist. It would be cool I always do enjoy Popping open daisy disk or clean my mac x or whatever and seeing that layout of my system's hard drive and like where the big Biles are yeah, and so it's like well, can I take that idea and apply it to git?

It's cool. Yeah, it's definitely cool. I also didn't like doing that with daisy disk In fact, I found lots of big audio files, which were when we record these podcasts We record our own audio locally. So I have lots of audio files of just my side of the conversation Unfortunately, they also somehow make it into my itunes and so sometimes when i'm shuffling music Like I might be it might be in the bath and i've got music on And then it's playing music and then it comes to one of these tracks and it's just my side of a conversation

And I just have to have like a greatest hits album like that the wire's greatest hits right and just talks just talks to himself because You know, there's this interesting phenomenon now I don't know if you guys have been out on the streets at all But when you're out on the streets, you know people just talk into the air And when they do it now You can no longer assume that they have some sort of a mental disorder or a problem, right? Because a lot of times they're actually have like, you know, the tiniest little ear pod in that's right or something And they're not just being Insane, they're actually just having a conversation on the phone or something and it's really strange

Yeah, this this actually is really good for me because I am the person that walks around just saying things out loud And and I don't sometimes think like sometimes like if i'm gonna have a difficult conversation I'll sort of like run it over in my head and sometimes i'll say it out loud And i've noticed a couple of times people looking and then I just like slowly put my hand up to my ear and just say Okay, thank you. Bye And pretend I was on the phone. That's a pro tip right there. Yeah, that is a pro tip. I like that Good one

A little a little speck of brain science for you. Uh, it is totally okay to talk to yourself even out loud

In public

Yeah, anyway, well, I mean there's etiquette so I mean pick your place but You are not suffering from sort of any mental condition if you touch yourself now There's certain circumstances where it goes too far. But any normal person who speaks out loud to themselves? It's just a way that you sometimes process your thinking everybody's different without they think And so you may be a person who thinks out loud and has to say it out loud to like really believe it's fact And so i'm here to tell you it's okay

And I don't disagree with that But i'm here to tell you that when you do it in public places that you look like you're insane truth truth Okay, and then you just say goodbye and you put your finger up to your ear and you look totally normal again So I learned that today. That is a good pro tip matt

one thing i'm noticing is the time to generate the database uh Linux is one of the repositories c python was one of the repositories used And the commits on these repos are tremendous. I mean more than a million on linux A little over 100 000 on c python and the time to generate the git log the git log size and one of the things that Uh, jonathan mentions is wanted features, which I think is pretty cool is like obviously faster database generations in there Uh sub module tracking remembering filters other things. I think this is a It's one of those things you're like should this be in git? Probably not right like you don't want to get money with like this kind of feature So this lives in userland and is this the best one in userland? And if so, like how does this kind of thing get support? You know to like not die

Yeah, I mean, I think it's the only one i've ever seen i'm not saying it's the only one in userland

I think with typical open source, don't you just have to like inspire people to Collaborate with you like it has to be interesting or good, you know To get that grassroots support of like yes sub module tracking would be amazing. I tried this my project has sub modules And it completely ignores them but a lot of the stuff is in there. So I would love to have that How can I help out? I think that I mean that there's really no other way that these kind of projects which really are kind of like Scratching an itch little there's no business around this like this is a small scoped thing that can really get support unless you inspire other people to just Want more from it and then they help out. Yeah, but the look at daisydisc

I mean that's I think a paid app or has at least paid features, doesn't it? So you yeah if there is a real business use case out of something like this then maybe it does have a potential future But I kind of love that It's play. It's like we play a lot and then sometimes there's opportunities that come out of that play and this is the thing a lot of software teams forget about I think they They get very serious and everything's sort of you know, and you forget that actually You know, you've got to be able to be creative and just try things and do things because you want to or you just think It's cool. Just thinking something's cool is a great reason if someone on one of my teams comes and says I've got this idea. I You know, I don't know where it fits or anything. I just think it's cool That's really compelling for me, especially because they're so motivated to actually do it, right?

It's harder than the other way around you going to them and saying, you know, it would be cool and then you telling them And they're like, okay, i'll do it because matt wants me to but sure less likely yeah

Sure, that's cool. Granddad They just think i'm their granddad Right. Yeah, and I haven't even got any kids. So how can I be their granddad? So I mean think

Inquiring minds want to know mad. They do want to know. Yeah, you can't do it. I think That's a great point though the play aspect because a lot of things happen when you do play I mean, obviously your mind is different. It's in a different mode, you know, like sometimes you're As you said before that was actually I may be outing your your potential unpopular opinion. I won't say it but um You know when you make a plan, you know, it could be too rigid. So i'm throwing hints there, you know I'm not gonna ruin it. Okay, you know when you play there's freedom, right? There's no constraints. There's no guardrails necessarily It's like where can I go? Where can I explore? What should I do and then you know? maybe out of it comes fruits and maybe that can be a business if you really wanted to be but I mean, I think there's examples of like large you know Things in our world like flickr. I think was a a game at first Before it was like the photo sharing

You know 1.0 version of this was supposed to be a communication tool while they built a game See the same same guy same teams. So they were just playing are they ever going to make that game? Probably not. It's done very successful companies. Yeah, they've let it go

But they may play the sims which is a good transition to simulating which I think is pretty cool This has actually sparked my interest because I was like, you know, I love to Have permission to mess up and like get sim is the next one visually simulate Get operations in your own repos And I think that's pretty cool because you can think of like what would happen if I branch what would happen if this happened here You know, what would happen if I rebase that over here and it's like you you can sort of like have this fictitious world This potential future and just erase it but isn't that kind of like git does anyways, but this gives it to you visually That's the difference yeah, this visualizes it for you so you can understand what's gonna happen and also It's completely safe like it's with git, you know that 99 of the time it's in there right like no matter what you do There are circumstances where you can lose data But most of the time even if you thought you've lost something it's in there because of the way it works But you have to find out how to get it back Right, and that's like a huge time sink right and can be very

Anxiety dangerous like it's like it's like running a production

Yeah But with this not only does it visualize it for you, which is super cool, but it also never does it right so it's it's It's kind of like a dry run in that way um The author of it did describe why it's better than dry runs But i've lost the blog post. All I have is the repo at this time. I do a lot of r-syncing in my network And in some cases I do deletion through r-sync. You do a lot of r-swat

R r-syncing r-sync putting is that like tattoos on? Sure, sure. Sure inking. Yeah r-syncing

No, touche

Are you trying to get a new gig going?

None of the above none of the above The flag i'm going to mention here. Okay, so With with when you r-sync it's like well, especially if you're going to delete you're moving data to or fro from a place and it's like well I can use dash n and just kind of see what it might do and it will go and do that whole thing You know it will And that's my favorite thing like especially with that kind of like dangerous tool. You need sort of a simulation zone so that you can like

Simulate yeah, so that's this is interesting. Like could you have this tool but for real as well? What what like? Well, once you do the tool then then you then you do it for real Or you mean I guess that as it goes

Is your question matt simulate it like the results and just say okay do it button. Yeah, I guess is that what you're saying?

Yeah, it's like commit. It's like yeah, that looks good

Let's go do it probably it can so I did find the part where it says, you know Why aren't dry runs good enough because git does have a dry run feature, which is like the r-sync one that you described Yeah, true. We're able to just tell you what it's going to do and the author of this which we should Are stinking matt

Yeah, I can't live here right now. I know I do a lot of r sinking

Here on my land. I'm picturing, you know, a tattoo artist r sinking Yeah, so this tool by jacob stow pack from the initial commit Team which is a team that does get things and he writes that uh, there's a drive dry run flag and git which is dash n also, so maybe that's a Standard or at least an idiom It enables you to get some idea of how the command will affect the state of the repository But he says these commands can be useful But not all git commands have them. So, you know git has all these sub commands and they don't all have dry runs And he says and the purely text-based output can be quite sparse as is typical of git's command line interface Moreover many people out there are visual learners and could benefit greatly from a visual approach to simulating the impact Of a git command before running it. So imagine this tool gets in As if it's a dry run That has complete coverage of the sub commands and visualizes it for you. Maybe you know this one I could argue Put it in the git like yeah, this is a better user experience for dry runs

Yeah, I this this would be very useful and probably would Um, like satisfy some of my fears here around You know git commands just being too complicated and I don't really have the confidence That it's gonna that I really know what it's gonna do because it's very abstract and can be quite Surprising the effects if you're not really okay with with git Um, and this would give a level of confidence for sure. It'd be like, okay, so you've typed this in Um And now here's a picture. Is this is this what you meant? And you're like, no, absolutely not You've just saved me a lot of embarrassment. Thank you

Yeah, i'll do the way around the dash dash animate Is a pretty cool flag too like it animates what's gonna happen like a presentation. Yeah

That's pretty cool. It looks good, too. They have gifs On the I don't know then it might not be gifs actually, but they have video animations on there Um, I just don't want to get letters of people saying that's not a gif. He doesn't know what gift announced it, right? Good point

So points for that. Thanks garrod seems to be a dot m

Dot mp4 just to be clear matt. Thank you. We don't we have to be a bit pedantic because I do I do get letters When I say sometimes i'll say something like just being silly Oh, it's lots of them in different orders depending on what they want to write. Okay. Yeah

However, you say you get those daily or weekly. Um, yeah, I would

I would say Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't say moreover Someone said moreover earlier. I don't think I was reading. I was reading verbatim from a blog post So you can take that up with jacob stopack. I'll let him know jason. Just listen. Just come here. Jason. Jacob. Jacob

Sorry, jacob. Um, all right, so that sentence had a bug in it, which leads us to our next tool

Oh, these links are brilliant This is professional

Yeah, really working with pros here today. Yeah, this one I love that. I absolutely love this concept All right, so git bug written by michael murray I think is how you pronounce his name Basically, he's got a bug tracker in git It's fully embedded in git You only need your git repo to have a bug tracker. So anywhere your repo goes The bugs are right there. Oh Works offline No vendor lock-in It's fast. I'm just reading bullet points now. It doesn't pollute your project. Good job integrates with your tooling needed workflow So that's what's cool about it is that bridges over to GitHub issues to git lab whatever they call their issues to jira if you're in hell already

Oh boy, geez, darren, sorry

Uh, no Say it like you feel it man. Say it like you feel it. No, I've never liked that tool I don't know anybody who does I feel sorry for people building send matt a letter. Oh, yeah, please

If you love jira let matt know send it to jason. He doesn't exist. I got his name wrong

But this is really cool. I mean How do you track your bugs matt? I just don't write any that's kind of the way I do it But how do you do it in git?

Sorry in github it has issues but actually having it in git and I assume there's like It's a text file or something or some data file where they store this and what's quite nice about this I guess is You with a commit You can also fix the bug and then that all gets pushed at the same time and because it's in the actual It's because it's in git. It's always correct. If you go back and check out an old branch You'll see the bugs that exist for that old. Well, you know previous commit you'll see the bugs that existed at that time

So I think that's really clever. Yeah, it's super cool the way this is built out it like models gets way of working Uh, it works like git works. It's just inside of your git repo. It has a cli So you interact with it from your cli both adding bugs reading bugs, etc. Yeah, and then it also has a little web ui Built in that you can launch and just run locally which kind of gives it a github style issues list with filters and open and closed and I don't know. I think i'm pretty impressed by this tool. Actually, I think michael did a really good job with it

What about tracking in production though? How does that happen?

like Where does it get the the reports? Oh error tracking. Yeah, like it is a bug in the air. I mean, it's kind of like the same world, isn't it? Bug tracker error tracker. Not really. How do you do it matt over there in grafana? Well, I was gonna say like

Um, if there's a if there's an error or a bug or whatever you just open it and I guess commit it Right, it exists at that point in the code base

Well think about our error tracker adam in century, right? There's a ton of errors in there And some of them turn into bugs I say we open on github issues, but if every error Turned into a bug then we'd have my my no bugs command would be way off like there's so many errors that only end Thousands of errors can represent the same code deficiency as well

Well, one important thing that you do though with that is like you track

commits to deploys to Errors and I guess to bugs And I think i'm just wondering if you have that full circle there that comprehensive look Because it seems it could be one-sided unless it gets that sort of like other source of truth, right? I'm, not following Say it again in different words

Make it mean a different thing as well if you can At grafana we do we have error budgets actually so this is a concept that uh, okay If anyone's not familiar with it, you really should be because it's so good It's basically like we're allowed to have a certain amount of errors and i've worked at a place before where We had a sort of non-technical That's the politest way I could say it as a non-technical cto Um is an idiot essentially and he said no shouldn't be any errors Like why are there errors? Why are there bugs? You shouldn't have any bugs and no errors, right? Genuinely. That was his position And neither of either okay, yeah and like okay sure Uh, it's almost like you don't really know what you're talking about. Frankly if that's your position And so in the real world errors happen all the time and you're allowed a certain level a certain budget that you can spend And that means you can be creative and flexible and do things and make mistakes. So you have the flexibility To within within the slos thresholds Yeah, exactly You're allowed to take some risks because if you if you're too if you really don't want anything to ever break ever You have to do a lot more work and you can be a lot more free if you're allowed For there to be some errors as long as you jump on it and fix them when they happen

Um, and so error budgets are those measured is it like errors per? Lines or is errors per week or how does that it'll be out?

Yeah, it'll be like failed like http requests depending on what it is So it's like a certain number of those could fail before I see. Um, yeah before you you consider you've got a problem a threshold Sure. Yeah

That is a cool idea I think the same applies to realistic too, right? Like it just accounts for reality and lets you Move forward while still maintaining and not letting it get out of hand Which is what you're trying to really fight against is like are you saying git get out of hand or get Get out of hand that's open to interpretation. Okay. Well, that's the thing not in my accent

It's not because they're very different when I pronounce those two words And I think I think it's I think the git the the that project is a play on words in a us accent I think it's it's like get but it's like isn't it? No, no, it's not

No

It's good. What do you mean? No, it's because uh

Because linus wanted to make the joke on the term then it's a tool for gets like isn't get kind of a pejorative Yeah over there. Is that what it was? He pretty much said that that it was supposed to be I could pull up the quote

Oh I thought it was like a in a texan accent. It was just like someone saying get you want to hear something funny. Yeah

No I'm a transplant texan. Okay, I didn't I didn't I wasn't born here Now I I knew a guy. Okay. I still know the guy but I knew a guy He was describing the parade going through downtown And he was telling me that was going dan tan Okay, that's cool and i'm serious with you. Okay, this is when I first moved here. So I had an excuse And I was like, what are you talking about? What is dan tan? He's like dan. He kept saying it. He got louder Dan tan dan tan i'm like, can you please explain in different words? And he finally says

downtown

I'm like, you can't finally you can say downtown

Seriously man like dan tan for like three minutes here and i'm asking you what are you talking about?

Well, that's the final word here. And this is hilarious because it shows how small of a world it is. I googled it All right, technically duck duck goad it if that's a thing you took the gwent I went there. Yeah, you don't it went around how get got Its name in this article. Hmm. This historical article is written by none other than jacob stow pack What's from initial commit? Yes, he wrote this

Jason he's back

He's done all this history here and he says okay when when linus torvalds made his initial commit of git April 7 2005 he supplied this message Initial revision of quote get the information manager from hell that's the subject and then he provides the The deeper cuts in the content. Yeah, what do you call it body? The body of the commit message. Yeah, sure It says get the stupid content tracker get can mean anything depending on your mood Uh one random three-letter combination that is pronounceable and not actually used by any common unis command the fact that it is a mispronunciation of get May or may not be relevant. Hello It may not be relevant matt, but it may be uh, too stupid Contemptable and despicable simple take your pick from the dictionary of slang amazing three global information tracker, so it could be an acronym You're in a good mood and it actually works for you angels sing and a light suddenly fills the room Oh, I can't actually say the fourth one. We'll have to bleep it out like crazy beep You have to look that one up friends He said this is a stupid but extremely fast directory content manager It doesn't do a whole lot but what it does do is track directory contents efficiently. So there you have it from the horse's mouth the slang Get may or may not be relevant. Wow. Okay. Good. Yeah. Thank you. So thanks for that. Jason

Huh? Um, I wonder what dan tan would think of that Dan tan, hey dan, have you seen this you're gonna love it You know, for example

That's pretty good. I don't want my other friend. Um, i'll give you one more with a friend. I like you just admit you've only got two My other friend my other friend Wow, he also had an experience on his first entry upon texas. He came from montana. Okay now montana's, you know Montana as you may know is it? now he He drove into town and there was somebody power washing Something at the gas station and when he drove over the Power wash do you know what a power washer is everybody? Yeah, well, it's just confirming. I feel like power washer. He's power washing You know, whatever it might be and there's a lot of pressure in that line and and this person drives over the power washers hose And the guy yells at him. He says it's five thousand psi there man. It'll blow up Dan to this day. Yeah, it's done. That's five thousand psi in there man. It'll blow up That's what he said Like as if you drove over this pressure washers hose because it had such pressure it would blow up Yeah service announcement if you ask me just so you know now it did not blow up to this day

We laugh at that. What why why is that? So the power you can cut this bit out, but I just want to know just for my own sanity

I'm gonna tell you why yeah Because that was the first experience. It wasn't like hey, welcome to texas That's five thousand psi it'll blow up Okay, uh, it wasn't hello. Welcome. Good to see you. Get your gas here. Come get some snacks inside or whatever. It was That's five thousand psi it'll blow up I'm over here wondering how many times we can get him to say that two more times two more times

I will sit on command in the future too. Amazing. Let's say do the bit. I'll just do it

Well speaking of blowing up this get ui project sure is blowing up on the scene Okay, what is get ui get ui is a blazing fast terminal ui For get and it's written in rust which brings me to a subtopic that I want to ask you about matt soon But let's talk about get ui first written by Guys whose handle is extra worst. So he's not just the worst. He's the extra worst But maybe the sausage kind it looks but it looks versed in it. It's versed extra versed

It's versed extra versed, you know, it's like it's normal worst. Yeah, but this is extra first So don't worry about it. By the way, I do that german accent to germans and they go. What's that? It doesn't sound like it doesn't sound german to them. No, no, it's so bad that they don't even know Yeah, whereas everyone else is like, oh, that's a good german accent

So I just think it's I was about to give it a compliment. Yeah, because I don't know Anyways, all right, so here's uh extra verse The description or why you gotta do it right next to first Matt you want to read this in the german accent for us? Yeah, it's in the doc there

Yeah, I do. I do most of my git work that one. I do most of my gets work in a terminal but I Frequently find myself using git goo is for some use cases like index commit diff stash blame and log Unfortunately popular gets cool fail with Giant repositories or become unresponsive. I've lost the accent become unresponsive. It's went a bit french

It did Unfortunately, this also sounds like the way you do it. It sounds very condescending as well as if the person's like a complete idiot

Who's saying like you're definitely making fun. So we should uh,

We should leave that in but we should back that out and say we this is totally cool extra verse We don't think that you're the way matt's portraying you right now. No, i'm just doing my german accent, uh extra first

Well, you know We have a we have like a there's a stereotype that german people don't have a good sense of humor and it It's one of those that I don't know where it comes from because every single person i've met from germany has like a Extraversed kind of sense of humor like it's uber good

I love it. So hopefully I can't take it in germany. I can't take it appreciate that. Yeah But to read it in in terms that we can all understand here He's he does say that a lot of the git gooeys fail on giant repos and become unresponsive and usable. So he built this It's in the terminal Would you use it is the question it's written in rust. I know matt. It's not written in go But would you use it anyways because a lot of us say hey, I like to keep it simple I like to stay in my terminal i'm in the same way I'm gonna shout out one you get gooey here near the end But mostly I just use the git command line like you do matt But what if you had more at the command line, you don't have to leave your terminal And it's not going to choke on, you know, the whole next repo. For example, would you use this because it looks pretty sweet

Well, I I feel like I need to come out now and tell you that I actually use github desktop

What you said that you need the terminal no, no, no

Yeah, because it's because it's like really complicated as I avoid complicated stuff This I like because I heard you it reminds. Yeah, we can go back and check the recording mate

If you're calling me a liar, yeah do that little rewind sound

Hello now i'm back to doing this accent again But what I like about this is it reminds me of early Early computer interfaces like really early ms dos type I used to do q basic Uh when I was a kid and stuff and so it has this real retro feel which I really like but kudos to writing in rust because I feel like For the times when you really need performance like this in this sort of case. Yeah, I think rust is a great choice

Okay, so you're not offended by that. No, no Well friends i'm here with damion shingleman vp of rnd at auth zero where he leads the team exploring the future of ai And identity so cool. So damion. Everyone is building for the direction of gen ai Artificial intelligence agents agentic. What is auth zero doing to make that feature possible? So everyone's building

Gen ai apps gen ai agents. That's a fact. It's not something that might happen It's going to happen and when it does happen when you are building these things and you need to get them into production You need security. You need the right guardrails and identity essentially authentication authorization

Is a big part of those card frames what we're doing at on zero is using our 10 plus years of identity Developer tooling to make it simple for developers whether they're working at a fortune 500 company

And they're working just at a startup that right now came out of white combinator to build these things with sdk's great documentation api first types of products

On our typical otsu DNA friends. It's not if it's when it's coming soon If you're already building for this stuff, then, you know go to auth zero dot com slash ai Get started and learn more about auth for gen ai at auth zero dot com slash ai Again that's off zero dot com slash ai So subtopic then so some language support or languages these tools are written in and therefore distributed in We have two in Python That was the heat map and the git sim This git bug is written in go Get UI written in rust the next one we're going to talk about we get to it get branchless also

Written in rust and they can't understand get to it or get to it I mean this you're really getting me here You're getting me you're really getting to me, I'm sorry I had to punt it out there, that's good fair enough Install I think is all that matters right. I mean in the end. Well, that's the question

It is for Matt. I wonder if you're feeling like maybe rust is starting to eat goes lunch for like

Command line tools. Well, I mean first of all, I think like yeah, it's about what's the easiest thing to run? And if it's Python and I've got some weird borked Python thing and I have to fix it or something Then that's a big barrier for me. But if if pythons you bread and butter then I feel like that's okay I just I don't use it enough that I have any confidence in it So I do like that you get single binary you do the talking Jared

Can you can you mention pip install your feelings about it? Yeah, if it's pip install for me, I'm just have anxiety mmm Even though it works most of the time it's the same way and hey old-school Ruby est But if if I see your tool and I see it's written in Ruby, I'm kind of like Do I want to mess with this? Mmm, and that's how I am with Python as well. Their stories are just fraught Do you not use get them? That's Ruby in it. Well, I don't mind the website I'm talking about a tool that I'm gonna install with dependencies locally Yeah, I got no problem with Ruby based things. But if you say gem install this tool, I'm like, you know what? I don't really trust my Ruby environment over the course of years on my Mac and I'm the same way with Python whereas with go and with rust it seems and JavaScripts had the same bad story for me But Dino is actually showing you know, and with typescript is showing some new opportunities to have universal binaries, which is cool I'm just way more likely to say if you can just grab a binary drop it in your path and execute it I'm like, I will do that a hundred times a day But if your tool says pip install or it says gem install or it says NPM install. I'm kind of like

Do I want to mess with this? That's just my sense. Does that resonate with you guys?

especially if you're on Linux proper like if you're on Mac is different cuz like you kind of have to use Homebrew or Pip if that's the way you want to go or maybe vanilla straight-up Ruby or a binary but if it's on Linux, it should be an apt or Whatever your flavor be yum or picker. It should be a package, you know Or you should have to update your registry with whatever package directory you want to use and you know apt update and get that and Install that's my feelings. I don't like the pip install anything if I don't have to yeah when I get a new

computer which happens more than I can justify I I don't like it when I'm the first time I'm forced to just add all these tools to be able to install stuff like I feel like it's a nice clean machine and Then and then I'm yeah hold off and I hold on it Yeah, at least if it's a go binary I can delete the file and it's gone and I know where it is when I install I don't know what happens when I NPM install something sometimes I'll do that in the wrong folder and then I get a node modules folder on my Desktop, which is synced through iCloud. So I use you don't mean like could be a kind of word, right? I like so I am yeah into that simplicity thing But if I'm using if I'm already using that toolchain if it's a tool for say people who are writing node Then it completely makes sense that it would be written if it's for sure Yeah, if it's a data tool that's gonna be used mostly in Python then I think you also can get away with it Although you still have the version issues

But yeah, right you can't I mean just single by no purpose tooling that wants to be used by people that are outside your particular ecosystem Ideally, which should be packaged in a way that we can just you know Isolate it install its drop it in our path and execute it and delete it and uninstall easy without worrying about it It's like spreading files all throughout your disk. I remember on Windows

I used to sometimes like it install something and then you like oh I want to uninstall that and there's no way to obvious way to do it. So you google it or you took to go it and It's like okay there you have to who you have to remove these files then go and find these files and remove them then open the Registry if you want to remove these values from the registry, you know, like

Amazing scatters its changes throughout your registry and you're like I have one global registry and I don't know all the places that it's been

Changed. Yeah. Yeah, it was you actually have to do occasional just reformat your computer to clean it all Mm-hmm, and and that used to bother me and I like on a Mac that you applications are mostly contained inside that single But not entirely With the M1 wasn't there more change like didn't homebrew moved to the opt directory. I believe wasn't oh, yeah

Yep, home isn't installs into op now versus user local. Hmm, and I can't recall why that was but that was I'm sure some sort of in order to you know, security enclave reasoning, right? Maybe it's just challenging. Yeah, I mean you think I mean you got P lists that spread about you've got something that might be in My application support folder or just you know, it's it's a Give me a good self-contained uninstaller with the thing. Yes, please. Give me an EJ But whether it's an application that I you know installs a literal Mac app or you know a dev tool give me an uninstall flow that is Respects my system because like I'm sure you developer developing it Care about your your system keep it pristine and with reluctance install new things when it's a new machine for sure. Mm-hmm Yeah, I think the only upside of the that style is that you do have preferences that persist if you uninstall and then reinstall Or upgrade you don't always want that dear. Yeah, exactly. But sometimes you're like, oh actually oh, I don't have to redo this That's nice. It has pleasantly surprised me once or twice but most of the time I don't want it I want it to be completely gone

yeah, sometimes I'll uninstall something because I can't figure out how to change a setting back and then I Uninstall it and then they reinstall it and it's remembered the settings. It's right there. Yeah, that's right there for you Like where's the registry? Is there a registry and that's what I'm on a Mac. So there isn't another culprit is

installing something to dot local in your root directory or your home your Your I get yeah your home I guess yeah and not removing it or putting it in like a hidden folder I mean, obviously I'm gonna do a LL or L depending upon what your flavor of Ls you use I mean if you got an alias or whatnot, you know, which I do because I use oh my zsh You know, I pay attention to things. Yeah, I don't like

No, why to when you just do one it's good question

All right So quickly Matt respond to my second question, which was as a gopher as a representative of the go community Do you feel like rust is encroaching on your previously? Standalone domain of like these these command-line installable tool like there's a lot of new tooling Whereas go was like the thing for a little while where it's like and it's written rust. Mm-hmm

Does then does that are you feeling intimidated or no no, no, I remember when go was like Becoming that and I would always say at the time like, you know, right right in whatever you want Right is like whatever's with the right tool for the job So that's the attitude can't really like don't really deviate from that I think I think go I don't think rust will just defeat go because it's really hard to learn and That that you know, that's the trade-off you make it's like much harder to learn much harder to write rust But but the trade-off is you get much more secure much safer execution and you and I guess if it compiles you got a high chance that's gonna be correct and so there's like benefits there But I think yeah, I think goes, you know It's I don't know if it's just like we'll see how that trends happen it's definitely will they'll be trendy sort of things going around but I don't know. I think they'll coexist basically forever these two fair enough

I was hoping for a less reasonable and nuanced position, but you know, I'm like, okay, so reasonable, okay

Could get my guitar and us anti-rust song if you like, okay. Yeah, I do. Okay. Oh

We're in for a treat here Matt has left his chair his his Mac displays tracking him throughout the room. He's back

Yeah, that might be has a guitar Mac displays annoying because it follows you around when you move and you sometimes yes

Talk about surveillance capitalism, huh?

Yeah, I try and sometimes move out of frame to pick my nose and then the blooming camera follows me

Sees it what's this song called anti-rust song or what? Yeah, I don't know I guess

Yeah, I guess so it's gonna be What key do you want to call it rust away rust away? Oh, yeah Okay. Yeah, I should just do it. We can always cut this. Can't we?

know

It has to go in what you type in in eating such crazy things What the heck is all this gonna do got some very bad news for you Rust away rust away Rust away today rust away, right?

Critique yeah, I critique Hurt his feelings. It won't hurt your feelings. Right? So if it was if there was a version two, let's say you go away And you think about sleeping Maybe you sleep a little bit and you dream. Yeah, and you think this is actually a hit song I could probably do some with this. I would just encourage you to put a little bit more rust

Lang specifics into it. I don't know enough to do that. I was thinking that I was gonna mainly focus on like Could I mention cargo or anything? I mean really anything. Yeah, my knowledge is really limited. I was gonna focus on like

Really? It was really quite awful. Actually. Yeah, I was gonna focus on

like vulcanizing things and actually like, you know to prevent rust like to actually you like they use painting and stuff to Protect protect the metals and it dies. Yeah rusting metal. Why would you want that? It's red iron oxide. There's lots of ideas, but Yeah, it just didn't happen I'm sure if Dan tan had done it he would have done a much better job because I know he's and particularly dance

so one quick hat nod to The get UI project is that it seems to be easily installable regardless of Originating language, which is super awesome. Mmm, just to bring it back Great song that thank you for sharing. It was awesome. I was gonna hop in and start singing With you, but my skills are a bit rusty Sorry about that, let's move on Get branch lists. This is our last one of the list here High velocity mono repo scale workflow forget. This is like a grab bag of utilities It's a weird name get branchless because it doesn't have anything to do with branching really But it adds a bunch of cool stuff like gets a good name. That is very nice

There's no branching. Yeah, it's branchless and you're like, oh what's called bad? It doesn't have anything to do with branches, but that's it's called will branch less

Yeah, but why would you name yourself based on what you have nothing to do with? Like I just feel like it's not the way to do it Yeah, maybe because they're against it and so they didn't like it, you know, I don't call myself Jared rustless You know if I don't write any rust good name, though I like that sounds like a cool guy. I'll consider it. They call me Jared rustless santo There's a cool name. That is pretty cool. I might pick that up. Actually. I revoked my argument Point is there's lots of cool stuff here smart log Undoing. Yeah written in rust. So it's not rustless by Waleed Khan and Been out there for a while but Not too much to say about this on the show for me and necessarily except for that. It's just a lot of like very nice user experience improvements in your command line git so if you're not like Matt using github desktop and you're A real dev using the command line then maybe check out git branchless in terms of naming, you know

same song different singer Since we're talking about rust away and Matt's doing some jingles for us. I was thinking get utilities

I mean, this is it's a bunch utilities. Why not like make a standard utility utility library, right? So I googled it and there is it get utils, but it's not a name at that. It's not maintained You know, it's it's sort of like I would I want to call it dead but it's I mean the last commit was two years ago It's probably Either perfect software or unmaintained

Right. Mmm. It's tough to tell the difference. Sometimes I was just talking about this

Recently, I think on changelog news on a post about quitting. What's the difference between quitting and being finished? You know, yeah, they're quite a bit difference But with open source, you can't tell like is this thing on maintained or is it actually finished something? They're just done other things are abandoned and you got to find out which is which yeah

This is this is always the problem that I have Because people that one of the ways they decide if a project is worth Using is the look when was the last release or like, you know And and it's almost like we're almost to the point where we're gonna just gonna do releases Regularly for the sake of it, even if nothing changes. Mm-hmm, and it sort of encourages bloat Encourages feature bloat as well Like when a tool kind of nails it then it doesn't you don't need to keep going on that But similarly, like software's never finished and

So it's not so simple. But yeah, definitely. We almost need like a health meter or something like that like built into github or Externally socket like they do a lot of security stuff Externally from the repository regardless of its origin whether it's get lab github or whatever I almost seem like a health meter or at least a democratized version of it That's like, okay. This may have had to commit two years ago, but it's still Right, it's being used like the downloads are still way up for example or the you know This release is getting pulled constantly into like other things, you know

Yeah, there has to be a different metric than just have those have that pulse page which they've kind of They've kind of hidden that but the pulse Which is kind of that but it's kind of like what's been going on on this project

Recently and you can at least go there and see well, there's been 17 new issues and no response like to me Probably abandoned because it's it's generating issues for people but not even being responded to generally finished software is at least I mean, there's still gonna be things that come up over time, but Kind of less bugs per response and then there's like, you know, PR is merged recently and it'll just show you like what's been going on It's not exactly health though. It's more like recent activity. Hmm, which can be a proxy for health, but not always. Yeah Yeah, I have good news for you Jared Done or perfect calm is available. So I mean we can encourage somebody to build a tool called done or perfect

So, you know not under mifflin done or perfect

So I understand I guess you're gonna mark your project as done or perfect. Well, I just was you know on the whim here You know, I'm trying to create a you know, rust away song for you, man. Come on. Give me a dime Now just some sort of you know, I mean I don't think that the insights tab is that Insightful in this regard. So maybe there's something that could be done maybe it's just uh, maybe it's a fun project like Matt said like this is just a fun thing and Then maybe github acquires you and then next thing you know You're a millionaire or a billionaire or you got some stock options in the juggernaut that's called Microsoft. It's just like

Slaying it out there

You know, all right That's getting like a dream, right? Yeah, so if you register done or perfect calm You're gonna be a billionaire with Microsoft stocks if you do it. Yeah, if you execute well, yeah, okay

Yeah, probably if you if you if you do it, let's do it. All right Well, should we hop down popular opinions or should we we have we have more things that we've shared that are get related but we can also just

Get on with it. Maybe a state of get Internally here, you're like, how do you get Jared? Okay. How do you get Matt and how to add them? How do you get speaking myself? Okay. Okay. Are you a simplicity person Jared? I know that you just use terminal dot app not I term or Even fig or you know What else would we have in the show use zsh now? Oh We're John bash. I can't believe you're having a good my force. I use as if it's bash Excuse me

I can't believe you were having to go at me for using github desktop and you just use the basic the first the only thing That's already installed

When you get your first computer, you mean a terminal like real developers do Subscribe to that I do have I don't actually either But he's being I do use it and I do use it almost exclusively. So now I like a get gooey myself hmm so I can get Graphical and the one that I prefer it is called get X Mmm, and I get X has been a long long time project. That's gone through multiple forks and abandonments and community pickups as Mac OS has changed dramatically over the years and so There was this Rowan. I think was Rowan J had a fork of get X That they maintained for a while after the original get X author didn't want to do it anymore And then that went unmaintained and I went searching actually for a gooey Specifically for a few things. I like to do staging and committing especially like what do you call it chunk commits like Specific lines of a file and like selecting all that I like to do that in a gooey and not from the command line because it's just clunky from the command line That's the main thing I do inside of a gooey and so get X was gone for a while It's just like abandoned. I was super sad I started looking for a new one and then it got revitalized in the last year or two by the community. That's like the best side of open source Right like people that loved it and wanted to use it picked it back up and now it's under like the get X GitHub org even it's not some users account and it's an open source get gooey for Mac OS That's under active development. Once again mmm, mostly maintenance mode, but I'm happy in maintenance mode because it's a good fact to gooey and We're you know, I don't need any new features. Honestly, it does what I like and I like what it does And so that's what I use. I use the command line for most things get log get status Simple commits like get commit dash all with a message command line push and pulls command line but staging reviewing That kind of thing from get X So I would highly recommend that for Mac OS users And let's get a little shout out since you mentioned the fact that this is being maintained. Thank you to this is not sponsored But I am a fan Mac Stadium in the footer of the readme. It says Get X is lice. Oh, that's the license Nevermind the one before the last not the very very end of the readme almost to the end of the readme So this project is supported by Mac Stadium open source developer program and they give them a free Mac mini for their CI So they say thank you to my steam So, I mean that's super cool Like I think we should do like shoutouts Jared like those that are supporting open source in some way shape or form Just like giving services away to enable Just no new features, but just stability right just keeping the thing alive. Well shout out to me then I donated a

m1 MacBook to the whales project Which is whales app, you know, you can build desktop apps using JavaScript And they're great. They feel like native apps and I wanted to support that project I don't talk enough about what I saw of open source here. I am frankly so

Well, that's what we have here. Yeah, could you sing yourself a song about yourself? Maybe Matt is a hero in the open source world

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the court pretty good right well I did I did write testify which is goes big

That's the testing framework. Everyone uses in go we had you on the show talking about your stuff. He had bit bar X bar Right. Mm-hmm. So you got your open source

Just because I'm so modest. I'm probably the mod most modest person in the world. You seem very much Yeah, it's your greatest. It's a big weakness because they're like I don't know Do myself a disservice

So this m1 mapping pro it's being used by someone to maintain whales I assume to build are they sharing it and mailing it around?

I would I love the idea of that but no they someone has it and they use it to like a CI No, no they're using it to actually test because it's a step you building desktop apps and so m1 was very m1 was very different and they wanted to There's work to do there

That's true. That's a great point, too I mean when you when you do desk or a platform specific development and you don't have The latest rev of Apple Apple silicon, you know You need that and maybe you don't have the cash to shell out or want to because this is just a fun thing to you

Right, you need supporters. That's cool. Yeah, and of course you can sponsor a lot of projects now on github So I recommend that and I don't think enough companies do that If you're using if you're a company and you use some open source project and you can sponsor it I feel like you just should like that. We should we should make that more normal Really, you know, especially if you make money on my project in it directly or indirectly

Well again max stadium calm shout out to them Super cool super cool. You're a pretty simplistic get user than Jared I mean you you mainly stay command-line only except for visual specifics

Yeah, you know keep it simple, you know, keep it simple. You're a simplistic get that's what he just said to you

And I owned it I Agree, well, I pause simplistic get user you did pause and that's the way we'll do that. I had to do that Yep, just remember that, you know, I had to describe to you guys what get meant earlier in this show So I'm not sure which one of us is simplistic, but let's just because you DDU better than we do

Yeah, our DDG. Sorry

I thought you at least go DDW. I duck duck went faster than you guys All

Right, Matt your turn how do you get how do you get I like to keep Obama simple get Yeah, I like to if it's complicated if it's like oh, there's a conflict in this file. I'm like forget it. I'm out. I Just put in the letter of resignation Yeah, I tend to use github desktop as much as I can and then I'll go into the command line if I have to if Things aren't If things aren't working for me, I'm not one of these like some people like Jared's a couple of times hinted at being like Like I'm not a proper dev because I use desktop app, right? I know Jared you're joking But I still have a song for you. I'm also serious. Yeah. No

Look what I did. Gosh Two songs with one shows this possibly because hopefully the first one gets cut No, it's not gonna cut. What's the what's the title of this one wizard? Keyboard wizard. Okay good. Oh Like Howard Stern, you know Howard Stern pause one second Howard Stern does a great job of having awesome artists on his show to do like Renditions of their song and live version. I feel like Howard Stern right now like what's your song title? Okay, go ahead. All we need is an awesome artist and then we that's true. Well, meanwhile, you've got me

I don't care what you wear Don't care if you swear It doesn't mean that much to me You can do what you need Do as you please You'll hear no argument from me Except what's your idea? Your idea, please I want to know who so I can see Are you a VS coder like me? Are you one of those keyboard? Wizards that you see Speaking of which I'm a keyboard wizard. I don't need no mouse Get that trackpad away from me. I know Combinations little rocky off foundations. I dare you screen share with me share with me share with me You know so I can see is that I don't attract that it's just a rectangle as far as I'm concerned That one's a keeper. Yeah, that's a keeper that one. I actually did write a good one. Thank you but also very serious point there, which is You know let people just use whatever tools they want don't make us feel bad because we can't you get out of them Just cuz we can't quit them. You know, we shouldn't Yeah

Okay friends, I'm here with a friend of mine Harjot Gill CEO of code rabbit AI code reviews so awesome, so the Explosion of AI for developers is very real as you know some call it hype some call it the future Harjot Either way code review remains the bottleneck for teams. What do you think?

How does code rabbit fit into this new world? My message to developers is like AI is here to stay We have seen like great success with code generation tools, especially the agentic architecture

They're getting really good in terms of exploring your code and solving small issues and it's only gonna get better from here This is like a time when you embrace AI Otherwise, it's like it's like what getting left behind and AI is not going to replace the developers is what we have been seeing I mean It's like just elevating the role of them and it's like going from a tank battle to an air battle like earlier Developers were struggling with syntax and all the mundane and the toil unit test cases like all the boring stuff But now we're seeing all of that is increasingly being automated with AI Fight the air battle as they say and the same thing is happening on the code reviews Now you're generating lot more code and what's hitting you next is code review bottleneck That's where we come in as code rabbit generating AI based code review platform Which reasons about your changes and elevates your role as a reviewer like you're not going and finding issues Which are surface level at the code I mean it goes beyond static analyzers to understand and those changes but it does elevate your

Role as a reviewer to look at the high-level picture whether these code changes are aligned with where this product has to be Whether it's like coaching is are aligned with the overall architecture direction of your company. That's where we come and help So how does code rabbit work code rabbit like the great thing about this solution? It works where you work like it's not like you have to know but after completely new habit or remember to use AI in this

Case so it works It deeply integrates into your get platforms inside your github get lab and other get platforms and in addition like two weeks back We also announced a VS code extension, which we have made pretty much free for all individual users So there's no reason not to try it out Like if you're already using cursor and some of these like AI code editors

It's a nice compliment like as you are done changing making your code changes Just trigger the code rabbit after each commit and you'll be surprised at the quality of findings It will find and the issues it will find on top of your AI generated code. Very cool

Well, I'm a huge fan of code rabbit as you know We're using it here at change log and you can see it in action in our pull requests You can get started today for free and it's also free for open source. Learn more at code rabbit dot AI again code rabbit dot AI Well, that leads me to a serious question though You're as a VS code user. Have you done any of the VS cuz VS code has a bunch of good stuff built into it Mm-hmm. Do you have you tried any of that stuff? Do you like it? Are you just like I'm happy with getting up desktop don't care. Actually. Yeah for the simple like just

Like stashing committing changes like yeah, I'll just use that in the ID because it's right there exactly So it's and then if it's a little bit more complicated I'll open github desktop and then if I can't do that I'll phone up one of my smart friends like Jared and ask him. What do I type in to make this fix, please?

Debatable. Yeah Hostinger tutorials mentions that github desktop it specifically says if your remote repositories on github They say quote this tool will be the most useful for you. Mm-hmm. So I mean that's a large tribe, right? I mean a lot of people have software there, but I do agree that at some point you graduate It's like well certain things can be done via the command line. I'm here. Why eject and go somewhere else Certain things should be done if you're in VS code. Why not use some of the visual aids inside VS code I do that like, you know, I might add a file to it, you know to Commit that I'm staging up and whatnot and type the message in and along I go why go to a full-on GitHub desktop experience. Well, maybe you're visualizing are you doing something with issues or maybe there's a PR going on and it's a bit more complicated in a bit more github specific. It makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, it does Use whatever tools you like use whatever so for me. Thank you for asking Adam. Very very simple

Well, I'm just using how do you let me ask you Adam? What's your favorite ever song?

Favorite ever so, okay Well, I'm gonna go to your side of the pond. I might say something from the Beatles. I'd probably pick from yesterday. Mm-hmm. I might Yeah, I'm just actually I'm a big fan of the movie yesterday. You've ever seen this movie You've seen the movie what great premise easy or not Amazing movie, but it's a great song too. So I'm a be the premise of yesterday is this guy

It just discovers that the Beatles never existed And so no one knows them and but he knows all the songs and he's like a songwriter So he just pretends he writes the Beatles songs and then they're all hits and he becomes a super famous chap It's right. I love that. I also love the Beatles Very much. I have an original sergeant peppers album in mono Which is you do is good. Okay. I just listened to it in one ear because you did And yeah, it's just beautiful Paul McCartney, I think probably one of our greatest ever songwriters You know just amazing

Phenomenal phenomenal artist so that's so yeah, my answer is that I mean I think the Beatles is is on my list of top artists top songs Like if I had to pick a song on replay forever I would say don't but if I had to it was by force absolute force. What's this? Hang on? What's this? What's the situation? How what? I don't know. I don't expect under your head or it's probably terrible. They've got your kids The phone calls them inside the house. Come on now. You want to do a Liam Neeson situation here? Do you want to go you want to go there Matt? Oh Matt loves Liam Neeson. He doesn't leave me. I don't care who you are. I

Want you to listen to the same song On repeat forever, I will find yesterday yesterday

Yes, you played into that brilliantly and Matt I knew you had a Liam Neeson up your sleeve and so you're just waiting for an

Opportunity that I always keep it. I figured he could do that. Yeah, can't wait for someone to mention Jack Sparrow. I

Think we've drained mad of all of his talent on this one episode I think he actually has I mean do you have other bits and we know you have Jack Sparrow, but I mean you pretty much done

German character

Speaking of other modern famous Singer-songwriter Ed Sheeran. Could you can you do an Ed Sheeran version? You also sing a lot too. Can are you do you like the guy I think is a great songwriter

actually So yeah, I think is it I think it's good. But no, I don't I can't I mean You can have a distinctive voice not fickle, I mean it does singing but Yeah, but shocking. I don't know. Yeah, I could do be like I can do everything. Okay, sure every beetle They're all different Ringo. You can do Ringo. Of course. I can do Ringo. You know, he's very bouncy when he talks, you know That's Ringo and it sounds like he you know, he doesn't know what he's saying, but he does, you know And you know Paul McCartney's a bit like that too bounces around but he's a bit more upbeat And also, you know, it seems to know what he's doing John Lennon was always very wiry in his voice, you know when he talks, so it's very different I love you've got swords is my favorite because George really doesn't sound like is This is really sound like is all there but it's really good. He wrote about here comes the Sun, you know Alright, you know, that's pretty good. Gosh

Worms back in the can

Yeah, can you actually get cans of worms Like can you buy them? Yeah for fishing? Yeah, just eating for sure

Well, you can literally get them and you can figuratively get the version That's a simulation or you know, not really the can of worms It's like you could buy the one for the kid like that the prop

Oh, yeah, what a big snake that can lies out when you open it for sure. Yeah, that's one worm though in it

I wouldn't say I'd say that's a kind of world. There's there's very many worms hands of war. It's like attorneys general It's been a get fun party

So much get in this got one pick that I would like to also bring up that I learned about Unless I think is very cool. It's review pad calm and this is like smarter PRS and rules around PRS so in a lot of my projects, I like to have it such that PR goes up and then we automatically run all the tests and everything and only if all those tests pass and they can be Backend unit tests they can be integration tests Sometimes they can be front-end tests end-to-end tests like whatever it is that gives you the confidence to release to production You can gate the PR on that so that it doesn't go into main So you never your main is never broken your main branch well Review that can be sometimes a little bit too strict and review pad lets you actually Create some more nuanced rules around this so you can say for example markdown files Just let them go straight to main you can say like in this case I want to I want to push to main but I still want someone to review this at some point So it's like still in there. It's low risk So you want to progress? And yeah, and later someone can check it you can say things like for all go files You want to make sure the entire test suite runs because it's quick So it's no big harm, but you can even do things like for new starters for like different groups of people You might say new starters all the all everything should run for them, but the more senior people have slightly more relaxed rules and they're allowed to push without all the checks happening and even individual functions you could mark a functioning code as critical and if anything inside that changes Then it makes sure that all the tests will will run all that whole pipeline Executes before it is allowed to merge. I think this is the next level The next generation of PRS. This is something that I mean, I don't know who owns this This is something I would I would expect to have in github at some point like this is really good I haven't used it yet, but I do intend to what do you think of that review pad?

I like all their words that you just said about it. Okay. I'm it's it's brand new to me. It sounds really cool a Glowing review from you which which does mean a lot to me So I'll definitely look closer at it, but I think that too late to start being nice to me now Jared Well, no one's listening anymore. We lost him that here comes the sun but But yeah, I mean definitely we'll check it out I think that PRS as they stand leave a lot of things on the table and we know there's lots of Teams building things like this in order to flush out and improve the code review process We had a show last year on graphite, which is stack diffs Which plays in the same ballpark as this but it's not exactly the same They're not tackling it the exact same way And I know a lot of people are enthusiastic about that Christopher Hiller bone skull on JS party actually Gave an unsolicited graphite shout out in his pro tip time because he's been you know that and it has been loving it So that's another tool that maybe we'll just link to But that's my thoughts on the matter. I have never seen this before this afternoon. So I have to check out it

Of how it does what it does. But yeah, it makes sense

I mean, it's almost as if like this could even be similar to the way you have infrastructures code It's almost like, you know to main as code. I don't know just like yeah Something that says like we have to have a gate on this process and like you had said there There's certain things that can go through more nuanced rules and that totally makes sense and a One size fits all get pushed to main does not always fit So I can I can see how this makes sense the thing I think I question though is less the tool itself more like Like Steve Jobs said about Dropbox. Is this just a feature? Is it a product or a company? you know, I wonder if like in some cases this is a great stand-up of a Feature that should just be get up proper if that's what the majority uses

interesting, I mean I wonder if their strategy is like an acquisition thing and sometimes that sometimes that's Great strategy to have you you got a couple times where I mean, it's a good. Yeah I don't that's been your strategy, but you've done it. Yeah three times today's place. Yeah, but they weren't features I mean actually I think solving one problem and doing it really well is is well worth doing and Yeah, like maybe you you'd struggle to build a business around it

But well, that's the hard part it's like here's this thing here's it's great It's useful, but man it died because there's no company. It's just a fee

So that's why we have to we have to sponsor open source if we want to keep it alive we can't just expect it to keep going and You know We have to either we have to normalize that more. We've got to do more of it It's hard to justify sometimes but it's important

I think it's really becoming more normalized But I think as it becomes normalized it becomes the paradox of choice. It's like well, there's so much open source There's so much usefulness and I can't possibly give to it all So I either do nothing or I just don't know where to put it. I just am just guilty. I feel guilty

Yeah, so that's interesting. I wonder if we could get something like a heat map of usefulness of your dependence

Yeah, how often is that code execute? I would say a git heat map sounds pretty cool. Honestly

Yeah, we could do with observability tools if you've got tracing and you've got like You know observability running in your code. You will have insights into the code paths and stuff You probably could gather some stats on the most useful that might just layer on the guilt though, honestly Why don't you just pay you pay for the project then if you're feeling guilty? Well, I mean, it's not me

It's somebody else. Of course. No, I mean, I think that I just it's damn tan I Would project the point you're making those the point you're making is great though. We should support open source more I think you know, I always want to see more Clarification on the how you know get up sponsors one answer, but you know, it's an avenue. It's not well It's not like what you know, the what becomes infinitely harder to define If you don't examine the sort opens which are used that's useful to you You know, and then sometimes it might be corporate sponsors. It may actually be open source, but it's a company who's backing you Well, you know support that thing. Well, maybe You know, you might use it as a support but like they're already a company just by the things You know that support them to make it, you know, I liked the words in it

I liked all the words that you just said Thank you. I don't agree with your point. All right It's a quiet. That was a very yeah Jared by the way Just for future reference if someone's describing something and you like all those words. I feel like you'd like the thing I think it's safe to say. Yeah, I like it I'll check it out. You won't like it

Give you too much credit, you know, I don't like to like give you exactly what you're looking for Cuz you you you beg for so much Well, let's close up with a lightning round. This has been a fun conversation a long one, you know way more singing than It's than expected or a lot more or less

Yeah, or a lot less than I expected but I was I'm really here to do songs and there's been a lot of talking about It's been a lot of time and it's way too much and a lot of time in between tracks

Get we should have changed the premise to like Matt sings a song interspersed with get conversations

Well, great, you'd go to that gig wouldn't you?

Well, you have one more chance here because we're gonna do a lightning round of your brainchild on go time unpopular opinion and surely you can strum us out the Theme song for the jingle for unpopular opinions. Can you not? It's hard. Otherwise, you'll have to splice it. Yes, but we can splice it right here I'll just do a musical version gosh. We're back to this again

Yeah splice it

So for those who don't listen to go time on popular opinions Is a regular segment where people share opinions that they think or hope or expect to be unpopular with a listening audience and Then we put those opinions out on the social medias to see if it's actually unpopular or not Now what we found over time is that most? Unpopular opinions are actually popular when it comes polling time But there's been a few people who have been somewhat unpopular and a few who've managed to be incredibly Unpopular with their opinions. I'm actually in the top five most unpopular opinions of all time. Is it? That JS parties better podcast and go time Oh films bad for JS with unpopular course with the go audience But we're gonna do a lightning round real quick. So Adam Gosh me first to you first one Do you have an unpopular opinion you'd like to share? I think my unpopular opinions. I don't have any unpopular opinions I tried so hard to think about like something that is Unpopular and all I can think about is popular things like well, I Think if you're struggling to get something done Consistently that you want to do my unpopular pin is that you should learn to habit stack

Mmm, it's a it's a superpower. What is habit stacking is a superpower? That's right

Tell us more but that's kind of a popular opinion if you know by habit stacking Like if you learn the you know, the the inner secrets of this dark secret, basically, so you have habits, right? Let's say you make coffee. This is my example for me really simple example I make coffee once a day when I'm at work at least, you know, maybe twice And I wear glasses like you Matt I wear glasses and as a glasses where you must be upset or get upset when they're dirty Yeah, right like I get furious especially upset if you have to have a special Microfiber cloth to clean them because you can't just use your shirt Your glasses will smudge. Yeah

I hate dirty glasses

Now that I have a point of empathy he can he can understand So my feeling is like if I'm gonna if I'm gonna have dirty glass all day, that's this upsetting can't do that Well, I would forget I get busy, you know have this cloth in my pocket all the time I'm gonna have a stack. I'm gonna make coffee and leave my Cleaning cloth when I have time there's there's steps between the coffee making right you I see through the coffee You wait for the coffee to brew you drink it Right. So you stack a habit here another habit that you do consistently and then you do it, right?

Okay

Superpower. Yeah, if you can learn to do that in different ways, let's say more productively. Let's say I don't know whenever you're Running tests and you've got a minute or two and you have like three emails you can rapid-fire off Then you can do them stack up a habit of like you need to return these emails But you've got that minute minute half or maybe you've got a couple slight minutes to stacking up or something that can happen that three minutes stack a habit of Good communication could be the habit. Okay, and the way you execute is a Few simple emails maybe a return slack message. Maybe it's a PR review or a one-liner or whatever it might be. Maybe a quick chat with chat to this tea Who knows won't do something? Yeah, it's just multitasking or is this more than multitasking?

It's not like you're just talking about multitasking

Well because in that case it may be blurred but in my case I'm like I do have a habit and so I stack certain habits around that thing. So not only Am I doing those are the things but now I think okay when I make coffee Neurologically, I'm thinking I gotta clean my glasses cuz right here's the thing. I just do it

So it's a harder forms that other hat. I would think what about like when you realize they're dirty

Well, that's what the point is is you always have that cleaning cloth

Oh, I got you unless you're clean

You know unless you care that this cleaning cloth with you everywhere and I just don't so like if I'm deploying my code I could floss my teeth. Well, I mean Jared pick your habit I'm saying you like if you got if you got issues with floss and then maybe maybe yeah

But I kind of liking this just I wonder if it also works with bad habits cuz like if they're like It maybe you're a nose picker D-stack you can be cigarettes. Yeah. No, I don't mean so that you can do bad habits Jared. That's my big Every time you pick your cigarette every time take your nose

Do I know that's redirection that's I mean so if I understand you correctly Maybe you have a bad habit and you don't want to do it And so when you think about the bad habit you do a healthy healthy. I like right replace it with

Now I'm thinking that like You know like don't brush my teeth And while I'm not brushing my teeth, I can also be not wearing deodorant for example, so it's like cascades done it No, that's not. No you want to do a positive second one should be positive

Well, I mean it would have worked if you cancel it out. Let's say you did a bad habit You're like well since I'm bad here should be good. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I should I was trying to do that Yeah, like actually double up on the other end so I know all right well this one was gonna be unpopular with me I think it's a terrible Let's go to you Matt. Do you have an unpopular opinion? Yes, I do

Yeah, I think I think when we're building software we very often focus on the wrong things like we We try I just think we always like we're constantly doing this we don't focus on such as on I Mean really you've got to solve a problem for somebody. That's what you've got to do and We sometimes are so far away from that is so abstracted from that because of process or just organization or whatever it is That we're doing the work kind of in isolation and not in the context of what we're actually where it ends up It's in in small tools and small projects that doesn't happen so much and especially if you're scratching your own itch Then that's a great way for this to not happen But when you get into bigger orgs, you know Understanding the why you're doing something is so important and everybody needs to know that everyone needs to understand it It can't just belong to just some people and they decide what everyone else is doing So I think we yeah, I think we often focus on the wrong things and we're just building the wrong things and usually like Sometimes it's nice to just do a cool project and I would never want to take that away from anybody but if you're just doing cool complicated stuff because you love it or it's Satisfying to do and it's a hard problem and you're solving it then that's one thing but but you can maybe if you can solve a problem for somebody with a script or just just have something much simpler if there's even just a tool already that kind of solves the problem like Yeah, I feel like we don't enough especially because we're we're there to build software we we should remember there are other things in our tool belt and Try and just focus on solving the problem and do whatever it takes to solve a problem for a person that and Try and know who the person is try and meet them if you can if it's not you to try and meet the person

So that's my input. Mm-hmm. Yeah, sounds like a device man. It doesn't sound like It's like I agree with everything you say there. Yeah, who's gonna do well You agree with how you execute what you may not agree with is that we're you said what we're doing all wrong Basically or something value

Most people I think like like 90% of us are building software wrong because we aren't obsessed with that So yeah, it needs a sound bite. That's a little stronger way of saying it. There's your sound. Yeah, okay

Well, I agree with connection and the you know, meeting the people that you're solving the problem for that's like key

You should do that for sure. Here's an actual unpopular opinion now that we've heard your guys's lame ones. Here's a real

Unpopular opinion. I know this is gonna be unpopular because I've said it before and people haven't liked it So I'm gonna say it again and see if people like it Automagically, you know the word Automagically, that's a dumb word We shouldn't use it. I Don't like that word at all to me. It says I have no idea how this works Thankfully nobody else does either And I'm hoping the fact that no that nobody knows how it works is good enough to impress everybody So you ask somebody how does that work and they say well, it's auto magical And we're supposed to be all be like, oh, okay. It's not a magical. Yeah and then move on No, it means you don't actually know If you knew you just explain how it worked counter because we you know how software works. It's not magic. Yes, but counterpoint

It means you don't have to know how it works. You could just use it it works and you don't you know

What else means that it's automatic. We already have a word for that. It just works automatically, but oh, okay Why do they have to be mad? Why do I have to put? No, let's push back there. Why don't you agree with me? I'm telling you. This is an unpopular opinion. It's good. Okay Got it, so Automatically describes a process that's too complex. Whereas automatically is just there's no complexity in there the Magically with auto makes the thing that you don't know how it works. That's too complex. You explained it that way Automatically doesn't simply describe something that's automagical. That's too complex and you don't know how it works. I disagree That explanation was not automagical enough It's just like I'm it's just a spin. It's a bad spin on something that could could be explained. Do you believe in magic? What kind of magic it's light a hand. Do you believe in magic? Are you gonna break in a song here? No, I believe in sleight of hand like if I'm in magic tricks

Yeah, you can't not believe in sleight of hand. Is there is well, that's why I don't understand the question Do I believe in their group out there like the flat earthers that are just like no we deny sleight of hand If anything they believe in magic, don't they because they think it's not sleight of hand. I just don't understand the question then

Well, I was gonna bring in a song but you ruined it But do you? Agree that magic exists to some degree like things happen that are very complex that we don't know how they work I mean not literal magic, but like a version of things have in the unexplainable. Absolutely. Okay, so that's a version of magic Do I believe that there's software that's completely unexplainable? Well, it shouldn't be like if you know your system AI Maybe it means I don't want to explain it to you

What is the context of this word being used that you that you like engineers say all the time?

They who says it they engineers and we put it in marketing like and then it auto magically just works and you're like really This is marketing lingo, okay. Well, you're spinning me. I don't like I don't work. I don't like spin. Okay, don't spin me It was actually a there was actually a book About spin selling. Hmm. I used to I grew up in sales, right? Like my origination into Professionalism was in sales and there's a book called spin selling you can tell you that sales because you just said my origination into professionalism I

Was in sales

That's funny, yeah, I know I'm mad I'm sure you've said it I used to say it as well and I was a younger person a lot of people love that term Automagical and I've just got I'm gone It's I just didn't know that popular opinion. All right listener. Let us know it. Do you agree? There's three opinions here. Which one is the worst? Which one is the first?

That's gonna be it's gonna be mine. Can we clarify that was not Matt. You were making fun. Were you were you making fun?

No, that's a standard German. That's just you're being funny doing an accent, right? Yeah. What do you mean? I wasn't Yeah, we're here again the show I want to clarify that cuz I thought yeah for a little while they're just set so wrong I'm sorry, and I'll miss it. So well, you should I almost stop the show. Hey should if it I almost

Absolutely, I mean I I celebrate like different accents, I really love them Yeah, and so yeah impersonating accents is like a fun hobby

But I was so close man. My white towel was like we're like no one

No one has a go at Liam Neeson on my watch It's okay to do British accent, isn't it? Everyone does a British accent Like yeah, you have a joke because I've heard you do it

Cuz I'm not good at it, no, I think accents are all in good fun I think I think well just the as you wanna be king or more caricature Well, that's all I think we made it clear that it wasn't good fun

So I'm joking about through, you know, any the show as you may know I don't know if you knew that was I was kidding. I was just yes something about stopping just yes

No, I wasn't stop the show we're just that's just being funny and now

If somebody felt insulted by that I would I would be dead right genuinely

Yeah, I want to clarify that like we were not trying to be insulted

We're not trying to be just it was all not just just talent natural. Tell us that it's just who he is Matt Go clean your glasses. Um, do a coffee while I'm there. Yeah, please And pick your nose while you're at it

Is that what you do when you make your coffee Jared you have a stack your nose picking them know I'm flossing You know one good thing bad thing, you know, hang on a minute

You should you should clean your nose like I know it's like people are like, oh you shouldn't do that

Well, there's ways to do in there. You can pick your nose. You can pick your friends, but you can't pick your friend's nose That's yeah, I learned that

Unless you're paying and they're having a nose job and by pick you mean select like I'm gonna pick your new nose

And if you're a very dear friend they might allow you

If I said to you Jared, I'll get you I'll sort your new nose out, right? I'll pay for it you but the I'm gonna design it right that's that's okay I'll do a good job a little trunk as long as I go into it with my eyes wide open You know a little trunk like little elephants trunk for you, then you could be like, how do you talk like that?

What makes you say trunk versus drunk?

Hour from the north from the Midlands so we have like Yeah a hard you sound so I say like cook cook It sounds like Jon Snow, isn't it? Like it's like a little bit. Yeah winters. How do you say router? The answer is come in. Is he like a weatherman? Winter is coming a band of low pressures coming in from the east You want to wear you you want to get your big coats out on Thursday because it's gonna be raining and we're expecting some sleet Things will clear up at the weekend as as the band of pressure blows out. Yeah, go on

You want to stop it fair enough? Well, he's gonna know I don't watch Game of Thrones. So you lost me this one I'll tell you what, he's got Matt. He's got an application. He's got geotracking on the White Walkers and that's winter. Oh, he knows Where's he got my tile on that's all part of it. I believe it's it's one part true weather and one part physical beings Coming from the north. So he combines those two things into it's you know a meter. Yeah Right now he lets us this countrymen know that they're coming. It's coming else. He's right

I mean wouldn't you know, it's every year John so it's not that impressive. It's like winter is coming. Oh, you're joking I mean, you know it is September so we know how seasons work ever winter will be here

But that's Game of Thrones. It's it how and when how and when do we end this never? I'm thinking like five minutes ago probably. Yeah

Probably when I try to say goodbye. Goodbye I don't know

Thanks. It's over now Thanks for your thanks. Well, you know we could do jr. We can play the final episode. What we can play a song It's closing time Tell me remember this. Yes

Yeah, you know this right? I said alive, right? You're playing that song for here When we were trying to do beyond code the first season in that bar We're like, we're trying to wrap up the last two interviews here. Come on people. Yeah, so we were at an after-party

At a conference mat and this was a Keeper be weird. Maybe keeper boo. Yeah keeper be 14 at the after-party The DJ turned on closing time at 930 the party ended at 10 So, you know naturally what you do then if you're a terrible DJ is you loop it Mmm, so he started looping closing time at 930. It played literally. Maybe someone had his kids very loudly. Are you trying to leave? his kids Anyways, we couldn't even record our video show cuz it's just closing time was too loud in the back

It was it was terrible. We're like, what's so rude who? Close

Let's you yeah, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. I don't remember that part

closing time Turn all the lights on every boy free

Okay, so you can't stay here but you can go join change logs worldwide community of software nerds for absolutely free We hang out in Zulip and chat about all kinds of stuff Join us there for the after party head to changelog.com slash community to sign up And if you didn't listen to this episode the first time around there's a bunch more Matt ryer filled episodes that followed We even have a playlist of his impromptu songs on our YouTube channel. Check that out if you like Thanks again to our partners at fly to IO and to our awesome sponsors of this episode Depo get started at depo dev off zero head to all zero comm slash AI and code rabbit at code rabbit dot AI Next week on the pod news on Monday Travis Oliphant from numpy talking Python on Wednesday and Arun Gupta He's no longer with Intel, but he will be with changelog and friends on Friday Have yourself a great weekend. Leave us a five-star review if you never have and let's talk again real soon

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