#define: game theory, dude

Welcome to Changelog and Friends, a weekly talk show about facial myalgia. Thanks to our partners for helping us bring you the best developer pods each and every week. Fassy .com, Fly .io, and typesense .org. Okay, let's play. Welcome to Pound Define, our 100 % original and in no way copied from Baldur Dash Game Show, where you're rewarded for lying like a skilled politician. Let's introduce our players in the order they will be playing. First up, yes, it's Amel Hussein. She's back. Again, I'm first again. That's right. This is, again, I should not, this is like the worst way to tell someone that they're going first, you know. We have a whole pre -gaming for a reason. This is how I assert my dominance early in the day is I just put you first. I can see that. And now we know the order of operations. Playing second, it's the winner of our inaugural game. It's Losh Vigman. Hey, Losh. Hello. Hello. Pleasure to be back. I have no expectation to win this talk. Did you sense the spite in my voice when I had to announce you? Because I was so close. I was so close to winning previous round. You were also close to scheduling me out, but Emma fixed it for us. True. Unfortunately you showed up anyways. Okay. So next up, we have two Swedes on the show right now. Is that what's going on here? Hold on. We haven't introduced Emma yet. You can't just start talking to her. Sorry. You're right. You're right. You're right. She doesn't exist yet. It's hasn't been defined yet. Yes, exactly. It's Taylor Troesh live streaming from his friend's bedroom. What's up, Taylor? Yo, how's it going? You're in the friend's bedroom. Once again, he's back in his friend's bedroom. Always happy to have you on the show

playing

forth. There she is. Now we can talk to her. It's our new contestant and our old friend, Emma Bostian. Hey, Emma. Hey. Or hey, I guess they'd say in Swedish, which sounds exactly the same. I'm not Swedish, but I'd like to be someday if they'll keep me. When you get older. Yeah. Good goals. Yeah. You're a Sweden transition, I would say, you know? Yeah. Well, how's your line? I mean, I've made it this far in life. Okay. So you're doing all right. There's a reason I'm on this show. We invite Emma for a few reasons. First of all, excellent BS -er. Secondly, the creator of our game show genre when she introduced JavaScript Jeopardy years ago on JS Party, which I then took and ran with, and we have a bevy of game shows now. So happy to have you, Emma. You're welcome back any time. Finally, playing last because I'm enforcing his chivalrous ways. It's my partner in crime. It's Adam Stokowiak. What's up, dude? What's up? Glad to be back. Glad to Ladiwal all day long, especially Amel. You're very good at tricking Amel. She's going to get all my definitions. Just love them and gobble them up. Pretty much. Yeah. But you know what? I would say the same for Lars. You know, we didn't talk about that enough, but Lars definitely fell for me quite a bit. So, you know, who could avoid

it?

This is not good. This is a tactic, you know, suck up to your opponents, get them comfortable. Well, I need to build like a good chemistry here because we need to make sure that Jared does not win. That's critical to me winning.

Our

last ship is part of the game. I am here to be the antagonist so that all of you can be friends, even though if you think critically, you're also playing against yourselves, but whatever, this is a game of fake definitions. Here's how it works. Each round has a word. I will present said word. It also has a definition. You all will create fake definitions that represent that word, all words in the category of STEM. If you actually know what the word means, you can submit that to me and you'll get three points for being correct. If you don't know what it means, then you'll make up a definition and try to trick the opponents into guessing yours. Three points for the correct definition to start. Two points if you guess the right one at the end. One point for each person who chooses your definition. If none of you, there are five this time, but if none of you select the correct definition, then three points to me as your host and moderator. The first player to reach 12 points wins. Any questions before I kick into round one? If I did the math right, this means that you could, if you craft really believable ones, actually beat someone who is consistently correct, or you could draw with someone who's consistently correct, which I like as an idea. This is true. You say the first person who wins 12 rounds or 12 points? 12 points. Oh wow, okay. So I guess that's how difficult it was for us to get there. I thought we got really close last time. So last game we played 10 rounds and Losh made it to 17 points. So we're thinking that it might be, you know, seven to eight rounds maybe, but we'll see. We'll see how the game plays out. It just depends. So we hop right in to round one. Your first word is Syzygy. Syzygy. S Y Z Y G Y. Syzygy. And these are still STEM? Correct. All in the world of STEM. Please submit to me your fake definitions privately now or whenever you're ready. Can you spell the word for us or put it in chat? Yes, it's S Y Z Y G Y. I will put it in the chat here. I am resolved this time not to fall prey to the humble Megaflask. Please don't use Megaflask in any of your definitions. If you can hear some kind of farm animal noise coming out of my microphone. Is that your daughter? It's my crotch goblin who does not enjoy putting her pajamas on. Well it sounds like she's having fun. That's why you need to go to a friend's house. Crotch goblin. No, I love her. I'm just facetious. Most kids around that age are some kind of goblins different times. Yeah, but two to four is the perfect age for children. They're the cutest. They're the weirdest. They say the darndest things. Do you still have any in that range, Jared? No, my youngest is five now, unfortunately. I mean it's not unfortunate that she's five. I'm happy that she continues to get older, I guess. Although my first daughter, I made her promise that she'd stay three forever and she actually fell for it. And now I just

punish

her constantly for lying to me. You said you were going to be three and now look at you, you're 15. I mean that's like so such a terrible lie. All right, I have a males. You have a wide range of children, Jared, you know, dealing with emotionally demanding and physically demanding. Like that's a widespread, you know, that's impressive. And then you have to deal with us, you know, adult children on the show. So right. Yes. My other, your other bumbinos. My other crotch goblins. I have Emma's. So far the ladies whooping up on the guys and time to definition. I mean, you don't have to state the obvious. TTD. Jared. These girls know how to TTD, time to definition. Okay. I've got Losh and Taylor. Adam is now pulling up the rear. Greatness takes time. Greatness. All right. Something, something blockchain. Yeah, exactly. Something, something NFT. No, I wish that. Okay. Jared, hold it together. Something, something, please click this link. Okay. We have all six definitions. I can't look at you guys.

I

just had to go. I had to go full screen on my spreadsheet. Cause if I look at your faces, there's just no way I can read these out loud without cracking syzygy. A phenomenon that occurs when a proton and electron collide named after scientist Thomas syzygy, a phenomenon in literary psychology, where the fiction lies to the reader as part of characters in the story, not knowing the truth. Syzygy maximum axial tilt of a planetary body, the persistent distributed key value data store associated with the IBM cloud Kubernetes service. Who's that? I can't even keep a straight face. Yeah. Syzygy the fizzing that occurs after extracting two or more elements from their original state or syzygy and alignment of three celestial bodies. We will start with a Mel. I can reread, or I can help you remember if you need to, which of those six definitions is the correct one for syzygy. I hate going first. Um, well, it was interesting. There was two references to planets. One sounded more legit than the other, but the element thing looked good. The proton thing seemed very legit too. Um, can you read the planet once again? Yes. Uh, this was number three, the maximum axial tilt of a planetary body. Okay. I'm going to go with that. All right. Losh, your turn. What was the proton thing? A phenomenon that occurs when a proton and an electron collide named after scientist Thomas syzygy. Sure. Let's go with that one. Okay. Taylor, your turn. Let's go for the spread. Let's go for that other, uh, heavenly body one, heavenly body, celestial body, an alignment of three celestial bodies. It's a little early to be playing the spread, but, but you can't start too soon. Okay. Uh, Emma, what do you think? What are we left with? We're left with, so unused is the literary psychology one and the IBM Kubernetes one. Yeah. The Kubernetes service and the fizzing that occurs after extracting two or more elements. So those three. Ah, okay. I'll go with the most sciency one. The fizzing that occurs. That's what I would have picked too, for what it's worth. Uh, that leaves Adam. Gosh. What was number four, Jared? Number four was the IBM cloud service. Let's go with that one. Okay. Oh, very good. That sounds legit. Your martyr. If I ever knew one, Adam, he's playing the spread, man. He's just playing the spread. We will see. Okay. Let's start with that one. So Adam thought that syzygy was the persistent distributed key value data store associated with the IBM cloud Kubernetes service. That was Emma's definition. So one point for Emma. It was so bad. I was gauging how, um, strong all of your answers would be. Nice. Well, you got a point out of it, so not too bad. Yeah. Congrats. Speaking of Emma, she guessed that syzygy was the fizzing that occurs after extracting two or more elements. That was Adam. So you guys traded points there and ML. You admitted you would have guessed it. You love my definitions. You love my definitions. I was so close to guessing that. Honestly, it's true. You know, you want to make me a t -shirt that says I love Adam's definitions. I'll wear it. I'll make it. That'd be a good one. Do it. Well, this time around, I'm all you chose the maximum axial tilt of a planetary body, not Adams. That was Taylor's definition. So one point for Taylor. Darn it. Good one. Good job, Taylor. Taylor guessed the other planetary one, which was an alignment of three celestial bodies. That was the correct definition. So Taylor got it right. He was close with his maximum axial tilt. So two points for him plus one. Meanwhile, Losh, you guessed a phenomenon that occurs when a proton and electron collide. That was Amell's. So she gets one point there. Basically, you're on brand, Larsh. You're just picking my answers. I need to know why Adam chose mine because mine was complete BS. Like that was not even - Because it was BS. Okay. Well, thank you. So he just liked to see the world burn or what? Because it was BS. That's why. All right. It's fun. Well, that round goes to Taylor. He gets three points, two for getting it correct and one for tricking Amell. Emma and Adam both scored. Amell scored. Our previous winner is sitting in last with zero. I also have zero. So off to a hot start. Let's move to round two. Our word for round two is ultra -crepiderian. Ultra -crepiderian. I will put it in the chat. Hey, Jared, may I have the entry of origin? No. For the word? This is not a spelling bee. It's not a spelling bee. All right. The word is in the chat. The word is ultra -crepiderian. For our listener, it's spelled U -L -T -R -A -C -R -E -P -I -D -A -R -I -A -N. Ultra

-crepiderian.

I almost sent my answer to Jason, our editor, and you just would have been like so random, you know? Like what? Yeah, you'd be like, what is this?

What

did you call me? Yeah, exactly. Ultra -crepiderian. Listen, just because I watch the Kardashians doesn't mean... I'm just kidding. Wait, wait. What is a darian? Because if we're talking about ultra -crepiderians... I don't know. You know someone? You can't phone a friend. You can't bring one on the show. That's someone who's always daring you to do stuff. But in a really crappy way? Well, you know, like, they'll double dog dare you, you know? They'll triple dog dare you. Taylor's in. I think we're all very comfortable pretending like we know what we're talking about, but sounding like official in STEM is a little bit different. It is hard, isn't it? I feel like Adam might be waiting for a chat GPT to respond. It's been slowly. Yeah, he does look like he's like, he's typing to chat GPT. Please be terse and short, okay? Make up a definition for this word that you might actually have. I need to be able to tweet it, tweet it. This many characters, you know? I'm known to be an LLM, so there you go. Oh my god, imagine. We should train an LLM on just changelog. That would be so fun, you know? There is one. We have one that has been fine -tuned with our transcripts. Why do I not know this? Like, this is amazing. Yeah, you can ask yourself questions. Yeah, you can talk to you. Okay, I have all six definitions. Are we ready? Number one, ultra -crepiderian, a person who gives opinions beyond their area of expertise, occasionally used in academic contexts. Number two, a ferocious beast from the crepiderian period was long believed to be the precursor in the evolutionary spectrum to the famous Tyrannosaurus Rex. Number three, the paramount operation within a set of mathematical combinatorics. Number four, a person who can read two pages at once. Mel, stop! You can't just laugh in the middle of my readings. I'm trying to keep a straight face over here. She can, actually. She does. I need to, like, mute. She should not. I should just mute you guys. Should? We should never use the word should, okay? Let's just put it that way. Okay, number five, ultra -crepiderian, a genus of sea urchins that were once thought to be unable to move. Don't laugh, Mel. It has since been confirmed that they simply move very slowly. And last, number six, mammals which only attack their prey when they are sleeping. So there you have it. Six definitions for ultra -crepiderian. Can we identify which one is the actual definition? Losh, you are first. And I'm supposed to remember all of these? You can ask for... I can help you out. Can you give me the mathy one again? Combinatoric something something? Yes, the paramount operation within a set of mathematical combinatorics. That's a hard word to say. Just remember we have somebody who studied math on the panel. Including myself, technically. But, I mean, Taylor, I think, is a little more advanced. I saw him laugh a lot at a different one. So I think he blew his cover on that one. See, Losh plays the... He reads our faces the entire time that we're reading these, don't you? Yeah, he does. It's smart. It's a good move. I like faces. And then there was one about academic context. Being a smartass. Yes, a person who gives opinions beyond their area of expertise, occasionally used in academic contexts. No, I think that one was inspired by our conversation earlier. Let's go with the combinatorics one. I think someone's just trying to be fancy, but I'll go with the mathy one, because none of them really worked for me. What number is that one? That's number three. Losh went for number three, the math one. Let's go to Taylor now. Creepy Sleepy. That one is genuinely creepy. Creepy Sleepy, dude. Are you talking about the sea urchins? No, no, the thing while you sleep. Yeah, the last one. Creepy Sleepy. Mammals which only attack their prey while they're sleeping? Yeah, Creepy Sleepy. Okay. I didn't know that. I guess you're right. Yes. Okay. Creepy Sleepy. Taylor. Good. Goes for that one. Now we have Emma. What were the first two again? The first two was the person who gives opinions beyond the area of expertise, and the second one was the ferocious beast from the crepiderian period. I'm going to go with number one. Alrighty. We go to Adam. Pressure's on. Let's see here. Two and five, please. Can you give me those back? Two is the ferocious beast from the crepiderian period. Do you want the whole thing? Is that good enough? End to end, please. From the crepiderian period. Was long believed to be the precursor in the evolution evolutionary spectrum to the famous Tyrannosaurus Rex. Number five was a genus of sea urchins that were once thought to be unable to move. It has since been confirmed that they simply move very slowly. That's five. I'm doubling up with Taylor. I'm going to six. I feel like that's the Creepy Sleepy is the most on the money. The mammal which only attack their prey when they're sleeping. Wait, are we allowed to choose the same as someone else? Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah. I'm piling on six. Cool. The reason why people spread is to lock me out of points because if no one gets it right, I get points. And so that's why you want to spread your answers out. You do not have to. You do not have to. So now we go to Amel. Last up, Amel. I have conviction, though. He's got conviction. I'm going to play the spread a little bit. I would have gone with the mammals one, the Sleepy Creepy Sleepy thing, but I think the urchin sea urchin one sounds so ridiculous that I don't think anyone here has made it up. OK, so Amel goes for the sea urchin. That's number five. Yes. Yeah. Wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Is this another Adam answer? Because if it is, then I don't want. I mean, I like a lot. I think you should choose it because it's mine. Do you want to change it? I don't remember the numbers of answers unless they're mine. So Adam works on numbers. You just that's a tell. OK, fine, fine. Don't choose mine. Sea urchin sea urchin. Let's do it. And if it's yours, Adam, this is. Yeah, we're officially starting a war. If this is yours. Well, let's find out right away. So Amel thought perhaps ultra -carpedarian was a genus of sea urchins. And maybe Adam wrote that, but no, Losh wrote that. So one point for Losh. Thank you. Oh, that was so good, Losh. He almost lost his point there because we almost talked Amel out of doing it and he would have lost that point. Well, no, because Adam, Adam basically fronted like it was his, you know, so. Man, tricky, tricky, tricky. It's fine. The war is not on. I mean, the war has been delayed, so that's all that matters. Still on. Losh thought that ultra -carpedarian was the paramount operation within a set of mathematical combinatorics. Tough to spit that one out. That was Emma's definition. Good job, Emma. That was a good definition. Saying that I thought it was that is stating it strongly. But yes, I did pick that one. Yeah, you did say it could be someone BSing, so. You should have gone for the one that Emma did. I'm pretty sure that was the right one. You should have gone for the other one. Taylor thinks he should have picked Emma's, which was a person who gives opinions beyond their area of expertise. And he should have, because that's the correct answer. That is what an ultra -carpedarian is. No way. Did anybody pick that one? Yeah, me. Yeah, Emma got it. You did. Oh, good. Awesome. Good job, Emma. Thanks. So three total points for Emma this round. But we're not done yet, because who picked that creepy sleepy? Taylor and Adam both fell for a Mel's definition. I win! Winner of the day! No. That was a good one, though. They even, like, remixed it and called it creepy sleepy. I mean, honestly, I should get double points for that. We'll just give you the correct amount of points. They came up with their own definition of my definition. They did. So much so that it confused me. I actually knew the answer for this one, but I really wanted to say creepy sleepy. Well played. I mean, poorly played, but well played on another mark. Wait, you knew the definition, but you didn't give it to Jared? Yeah, I knew this one. I just wanted to say creepy sleepy. Listen, Taylor's not a capitalist like all of us, okay? No, he's an anarchist. He's here to have fun, not here to win. So did you know after I read it to you then? Because you didn't submit it. Oh yeah, like I knew when you said it. I was like, oh yeah, that's it. Once I read it. Yeah. All right. After two rounds, we have Emma in first place with four points. We have a Mel and Taylor in second with three. Losh and Adam tied in last with one. I guess technically I'm last with zero, but we don't have to talk about that. What's up, friends? This episode is brought to you by our friends at Neon. Serverless Postgres is exciting and we're excited. And I'm here with Nikita Shamganov, co -founder and CEO of Neon. So Nikita, one thing I'm a firm believer in is when you make a product, give them what they want. And one thing I know is developers want Postgres. They want it managed and they want it serverless. So you're on the front lines. Tell me what you're hearing from developers. What are you hearing from developers about Postgres managed and being serverless?

So what we hear from developers is the first part resonates. Absolutely. They want Postgres. They want it managed. The serverless bit is 100 % resonating with what people want. They sometimes are skeptical. Like, is my workload going to run well on your serverless offering? Are you going to charge me 10 times as much for serverless that I'm getting for provision? Those are like the skepticism that we're seeing. And then people are trying and they see that the bill arriving at the end of the month. And like, well, this is strictly better. The other thing that is resonating incredibly well is participating in the software development lifecycle. What that means is you use databases in two modes. One mode is you're running your app and the other mode is you're building your app. And then you go and switch between the two all the time because you're deploying all the time. And there is a specific part when you're just building out the application from zero to one. And then you push the application into production. And then they keep iterating on the application. What databases on Amazon, such as RDS and Aurora and other hyperscalers, are pretty good at is running the app. They've been at it for a while. They learned how to be reliable over time. And they run massive fleets right now. Like Aurora and RDS run massive fleets of databases. So they're pretty good at it. Now, they're not serverless. At least they're not serverless by default. Aurora has a serverless offering. It doesn't scale to zero. Neon does. But that's really the difference. But they have no say in the software development lifecycle. So when you think about what a modern deployed to production looks like, it's typically some sort of tie -in into GitHub, right? You're creating a branch. And then you're developing your feature. And then you're setting a PR. And then that goes through a pipeline. And then you're on GitHub Actions. Or you're running GitLab for CI CD. And eventually, this whole thing drops into a deploy into production. So databases are terrible at this today. And Neon is charging full speed into participating in the software development lifecycle world. What that looks like is Neon supports branches. So that's the enabling feature. Git supports branches. Neon supports branches. Internally, because we built Neon, we built our own proprietary. And what I mean by proprietary is built in -house. The technology is actually open source. But it's built in -house to support copy and write branching for the Postgres database. And we run and manage that storage subsystem ourselves in the cloud. Anybody can read it. It's all on GitHub under Neon database repo. And it's quite popular. There are over 10 ,000 stars on it and stuff like that. This is the enabling technology. It supports branches. The moment it supports branches, it's trivial to take your production environment and clone it. And now you have a developer environment. And because it's serverless, you're not cloning something that costs you a lot of money. And imagining for a second that every developer cloned something that costs you a lot of money in a large team, that is unthinkable, right? Because you will have 100 copies of a very expensive production database. But because it is copy and write and compute is scalable, so now 100 copies that you're not using, you're only using them for development, they actually don't cost you that much. And so now you can arrive into the world where your database participates in the software development lifecycle. And every developer can have a copy of your production environment for their testing, for their feature development. We're getting a lot of feature requests, by the way, there. People want to merge this data, or at least schema backing into production. People want to mask PII data. People want to reset branches to a particular point in time of the parent branch or the production branch or the current point in time, like against the head of that branch. And we're super excited about this. We're super excited. We're super optimistic. All our top customers use branches every day. I think it's what makes Neon modern. It turns a database into a URL and it turns that URL to a similar URL to that of GitHub. You can send this URL to a friend, you can branch it, you can create a preview environment, you can have DevTest staging, and you live in this iterative mode of building applications.

Okay, go to neon .tech to learn more and get started. Get on -demand scalability, bottomless storage, and data branching. One more time, that's neon .tech. Let's move now to round three and omphalaeskepsis. Please submit to me omphalaeskepsis now or whenever you're ready. I'm actually going to go get a drink of water and bring it back. So take your time. Take your time. I'll be right back. Take all the time you need. This one's hard. Don't talk about me while I'm gone. Hey, you guys, we're doing great because Jared is at zero points and we're already on round three. So I just want to say, great job, everyone. Keep going strong, okay? You can't win this. Or you can come close. This is much more difficult after a full day of work. Yeah, they have it easy. It's good to have someone else in the time zone. Exactly. Us Europeans have to stick to it. I say that as if I've completely just abandoned my U .S. American identity, which frankly, I have. Not all you have to do is work on the accent, Emma, and then you'll be good, you know? You already got like a half Swedish baby. Honestly, I would say it seems like you're pretty far along with the accent. Yeah, I'm in Svenska, bra. First, I actually heard it as a bit of a Norwegian accent, which is not bad because those sound so happy. Yeah, I'm learning it from preschool. Like my daughter's in Swedish for school and I'm just picking it up from her, so. Okay, I have all six definitions for omphalaeskepsis. Are we ready? Okay, number one, a symptom of the lymph nodes where they react to and reject a substance the body has consumed, usually accompanied by significant discomfort and irritation of the mucous membranes. Number two, a process in theoretical immunology whereby the functions of cells within the immune system attack one another. Number three, also known as wiggle bone disease. Shoot. An infection of the cartilage protrusion on the tip of the nose.

On the tip of the nose, wow.

Number four, a form of scoliosis where the deterioration of the spine occurs because of inflammation, the spinal fluid. Number five, the contemplation of one's navel. Sorry. The contemplation of one's navel as an aid to meditation. And number six, similar to facial myalgia, omphaloeskepsis is an infection of the skin inside the nostrils. How do we get two nose ones? So lots of medical definitions here. We have six of them read at various qualities of reading. And we have Taylor up first. What, sir, do you think omphaloeskepsis means? I think the two nose ones sound like they were written by extremely intelligent people. So I will go with the skin one and not wiggle bone disease. OK, so Taylor picks number six, an infection of the skin inside the nostrils. We go to Emma. I'm going with number one, that thing about the lymph nodes. OK, Emma picks lymph nodes. We go to Adam. I'm thinking three or five with three again. No, sorry, two or four. Two or four. Two was the process in theoretical immunology whereby the functions of cells within the immune system attack one another. And four was a form of scoliosis where the deterioration of the spine occurs because of inflammation in the spinal fluid. Let's go with that one. Number four. OK, number four goes to Adam. Back to a Mel now. Yeah, the fluid thing sounds really good, but the first one I think really hooked me in. You're going to pile on with Emma on number one? Do you see I'm in the lead there, Adam? She has a point. The scoliosis thing makes sense, right? Because it's like scoliosis is number four. Adam picked that one. Number one is the symptom of the lymph nodes. It's true. So Adam, do you want me to join you with team scoliosis? No. OK, I'm going to go with my girl Emma. OK, so you're on lymph nodes as well. OK. It's a bad move. Do we split the points if we both are correct? You both score them, yes. You don't split them, you score them. OK, that's good. And Losh, Losh but not least. It's between immunology and the spinal fluid, but I'll go with immunology. Get a bit more spread. A process in theoretical immunology. Number two. OK, that's number two. Losh. That one sounded very fake. Losh, I'm surprised you picked that one. Just want to put that out there. Shots fired. I'll go with that one. No one got the real definition. Let's find out where the ladies landed. They both picked lymph nodes and Losh was spiraling all ears when you did that. Two points for him. That was his definition. Losh. Sorry, Amel. I was only a bio major for three months, so. For three months? OK. What was the word again? Ompa lascapsis. Ompa lumpa. Yeah, well isn't that the chocolate river in Willy Wonka? The oompa lumpa sepsis? I was like, they were the little baby dancers. Oh yeah. Let's check out scoliosis. Adam liked to check that one out and Amel checked that one in. That was her definition. Adam, you are loving Amel. Yeah, Adam. It was a good one. The tables are turning. I tried to get Losh to come my way, but you know, now I have to pick a different tactic. I can't comment on my answers. That's like, it's already out. So just so you know, when I'm commenting on other answers, it's not mine. Just so you know. OK. Now she's playing reverse psychology on you. That's right. Just so you know. Losh liked a process in theoretical immunology. Amel said that sounded really fake. Turns out it was really fake. Emma made that one up. Good job, Emma. Yay. Figures. Two in a row, Losh. I'm coming for you. Now the question is, can Taylor play the spread to much effect? Because he's the last one left to keep me out of the points. And he picked similar to facial myalgia. Ompa lumpa sepsis is an infection of the skin inside the nostrils. Adam, was that one right? No, that one's Adam's one point for Adam, which means nobody landed on the correct definition. The contemplation of one's navel as an aid to meditation. Are you serious? Was that real? That's real. Oh, my gosh. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Everything I know is a lie. You can't pick ridiculous definitions, OK? That's not part of the game because we make up the ridiculous ones. It's kind of part of it. Oh, darn it. See, now I've thrown a wrench in your plans. Turns out when I laugh at the definition, it's not necessarily because it's wrong. It's just because it's funny. Oh, look at that. So three points for me in round three. Excellent job, Jared. Thank you very much. After three rounds, Emma still, though, sitting in first with five, Amel with four, three -way tie at three between Losh, Taylor, myself and Adam pulling up the caboose with two points. Yeah, yeah. Do you all remember from the last time, neuromuscular re -education being like the acronym for NMR? And we were just like, no way, no re -education like that is really pushing it. And then no one picked it and it was real. So this just feels like that. Can we talk about a form of meditation where you stare at your navel? I mean, come on, let's move on. Round four, this is our TLA round, which stands for three -letter acronym. Turns out it's a four -letter acronym this time. It's a special round where I give an acronym. You all provide the words behind said acronym and the definition of the words. So much like NMR last time was neuromuscular re -education, you provide that plus the definition. Okay. And the acronym that you're going to do is VLSI. V as in Victor, L as in loser, S as in Saturday, and I as in Indigo. That's not what it stands for. It's not Victor, Loser, Saturday, Indigo. If anybody was thinking they might submit that. Can I just say from the last round? Yes, Taylor's was the wiggle bone disease. Please don't say also known as I just can't handle them. Okay. Every time I see it, as soon as I saw that, I'm like, oh, I'm going to struggle. I can't read also known as is I should have said similar to the facial manager then. Yeah, that one actually worked. I didn't. That one didn't crack me up. That's a made up term in my house. If the kids put their face in the bathtub, like under the water, I tell them they're going to get facial myalgia. Okay. It's a way to get them to not put their face in the water when their brothers are having a bath together. It's just, you know, there's things in there. It's also a way for them to like have drama around like putting their face in the water for the rest of their life. Oh, my kids love it. They laugh their butts off. They don't even care. They actually think it's hilarious. They want facial myalgia. They do. They're like, dad, I have a base. It's not working. It is not working. Give it a minute and they'll start going. I can't go to school today. You know, facial myalgia. Not for you out yesterday. I had facial myalgia. What in the world is that? That sounds legit. Yeah. I made a mistake this morning. I went to go get a drink. I chose lavender melon kombucha. That's my drink. Lavender is not the right choice for beverage or food. Yeah. It's definitely not a consumable. It seems like a flavor that chat GPT made up. You know, it's like, it's like they were like, all right, chat GPT, come up with our new flavor combos. And it's like, I'm a machine. I've never tasted anything, but okay, here goes. You know, we had some lavender chocolate and none of us can

eat

it. Sounds disgusting. It was the chocolate bit was fine, but it tasted like bed linens.

Well,

yeah. Nicely handled fresh bed linens, but it's just not something I want. You like that? You should taste my homemade muffins. Just exactly like bed linens. Jared, I altered my definition. So the text is edited. If you just copy the new word. Gotcha. I kept mine exactly the same Jared, just so you know. Okay, we're throwing shade just because you're in last place, Adam. Oh, snap. Everybody's always changing their answers is all, you know, just got to put it out there. Keeping it the same. Making fun or giving Adam and Jared a hard time. It's just so easy. You guys are such easy targets because we all love you. So it's just, you're just so easy to like, poke, poke at. No, feel free to poke at me whenever you like. I like that. Jared, I'm a married lady. Okay. Poking randos. All right. WTF does that TLA mean? VLSI. Six definitions. Vision Lens Spectrum Interceptor. The apparatus used to mimic the human eye's ability to capture light. VLSI. Verilog Language System Integration. A language for Field Programmable Gate Arrays, FPGAs. VLSI Vector Language Symbol Interference. A shorthand used to store large computational vector data as a means of reducing cloud storage costs. Number four. VLSI Very Large Scale Integration. The process of creating an integrated circuit by combining millions or billions of transistors onto a single chip. Number five. Vector LASIK Surface Incision. A minimally invasive type of dermal laser treatment using acute angles and low power. And number six. Vector Longitudinal Scalar Intersection. A Cartesian coordinate where two vectors intersect along a horizontal plane, typically used in aerospace engineering to calculate the angle at which the wings are attached to the fuselage. There you have it. Six, I think, pretty good definitions this time around. One of those is the real definition and the real acronym, and five of them are not. I'm not convinced there's a real one in there. I'm amazed that we used vector more than once. Or did we? Last round Taylor went first, so this round Emma will go first. Emma, which of those do you think is the correct definition? Could you read one in five again please? Yes, one was the Vision Lens Spectrum Interceptor, an apparatus used to mimic the human eye's ability to capture light. And five was Vector LASIK Surface Incision, a minimally invasive type of dermal laser treatment using acute angles and low power. Just to let you guys know, that one's the correct one. That's what they did to fix my wiggle bone disease. I mean, what are the chances we get three vectors out of six answers? So I have to assume it's got to be one of those, right? Well, Emma, in all fairness, these are all a bunch of software engineers. So it's like, I'm not surprised about that. As in like, you know, we see the word V and we think vectors like these days. Vector's the new cult too. But you literally just said you were surprised. So now I don't believe you. Maybe I was playing a game. I go with five, just go with five. Emma's going with five. We now go to Adam. Which one do you think it is? None of them. Gosh. Vector? Victor? What's the vector, Victor? I'm not going with vector. What's two and six again, Jared? Two and six? Yeah. I feel like these are arbitrary numbers when you guys ask me for them. Two, like three and seven. Two is the Verilog Language System Integration, a language for field programmable gate arrays. Ooh. Six was the Vector Longitudinal Scalar Intersection, a Cartesian coordinate where two vectors intersect along a horizontal plane, typically used in aerospace engineering to calculate the angle at which the wings are attached to the fuselage. Or fuselage, if you're so inclined. The choice is so hard. Please don't make me read these again. This is really hard, honestly. What was three again? Three, Vector Language Symbol Interference. Do you want the full definition? No. No, absolutely not. That's good. I did not want to read it. Which bad one should I choose? Which bad one? Let me go with number two. Gosh, this Verilog stuff's got me. Number two, the Verilog Language System Integration. All right, you got it. Next up, Amel. You're making all kinds of noises. Well, no, because this is really hard. It is hard. Well, tell us your thought process. What are you thinking? Well, what am I thinking is, I think all the vector ones are from the engineers, which is pretty much everyone. So

I

want to go with a non -vector answer. So could we just summarize? You don't need the definitions. Just give me the non -vector ones. Could you list those out? The non -vector ones, the Verilog Language System Integration, the Vision Lens Spectrum Interceptor, and the Very Large Scale Integration. One of the vector ones was not programming or engineering in that way. Yeah, it had to do with aerospace. Yeah, and I think that definition was way too long to be real. So that's why I eliminated it there. No, hold on. There was one more. There's so many. One of them was a vector laser, right? There's three vectors. Vector LASEC, Vector Longitudinal, and Vector Language. And then there's other words, too. But those are the three vectors. What's the second one that you read that was not vectors? Vision Lens Spectrum Interceptor, the apparatus used to mimic the human eye's ability to capture light. Let's do that one. Amel lands on that one. And if I see somebody smiling here, then you know what? You got me. Losh, what you got? My thinking is that the most kind of crisp, engineer -y type definitions have been MS consistently. So I think a very long one is probably Amel, because it seems like nerd bait. It seems like nerd bait. I'll take that as a compliment, actually. Yeah, I think that was a compliment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it. And the dumbest seeming one, which I think is what Jared would have picked, because he's absolutely kind of spicing up the definitions, seems to be the very large one. So read that one again, because I didn't catch all of it. Very large scale integration. The process of creating an integrated circuit by combining millions or billions of transistors onto a single chip. OK, can I change my answer? No. I just, for the record, I want to say that I would have picked that had I heard the definition again. I read it like six times. I'm going with the very large one, because naming things in hardware is silly. There he goes. He's got it. And Taylor? It is the very large one. Oh, confident man. It is the very large one. Are you picking it, though? Because you've been known not to pick the one that's correct. I'm falling behind, so I've got to pick the correct one this time. All right. Taylor had to pick the correct one. And Losh was on point. Taylor was on point. That is the correct one. Very large scale integration. So two points for each of you for getting it correct. Now I'm super curious if I was right about which one was Emma's. You were wrong, because that was actually Taylor's. He's also good at nerd bait. Have you read his blog? He usually doesn't do it. Because I think VLSI has to do with FPGAs. It's like very large scale integration. It's like programming a whole bunch of tiny, tiny little hardware chips. Nice. Also known as very large. Very large, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm happy that I now know what that strategy is, Lars. Like I think when in doubt, pick the most ridiculous one. I think that has seemed to be the most. It's not going to be consistent because it's going to be mixing it up. Really? Yeah, next time. Next time there's going to be a definition with a spelling error in it. So he will be tripped up while reading it. You're really not a game in this thing. Yeah, but that's one episode out still. Okay, speaking of spelling errors, though, you guys, I think I would have actually won this round had I not spelled the wrong. I was supposed to say vector language symbol inference, right? And this makes sense. It's a shorthand used to store large computational vector data as a means of reducing cloud storage costs. Like I'm thinking of how do I reduce my logging costs? Well, we use shorthand. So, you know, I think that makes sense. Yeah. Here's the problem is you said all the vectors were engineers. And so at that point you outed yourself. You peed in the pool. You peed in the pool. Doesn't matter. That's the point. You're supposed to do that stuff. But yes, you're right. I'm wrong. Fair, fair. All right, well, let's get the rest of these figured out. So the Verilog one that was Taylor's nerd bait and Adam fell for the bait. So he guessed that one and that Taylor gave Taylor another point. Good job, Taylor. Vector LASIK surface incision. Emma guessed that. That was Losh's. So he also gained another point for tricking somebody. Three for each of you. And vision lens spectrum interceptor. You know, Mel loves Adam's definitions. So he got her with that one. Of course he did. Like a moth to the flame, you know? Yes. So three points for Losh, three points for Taylor, one point for Adam. Was Four's Losh's, though? Was Losh's number four? Four was the correct one. That was mine. Okay, never mind. The very large scale integration, yeah. Because I was watching Losh laugh really hard when Four was red. And I was thinking like he laughed at his own thing or it was that ridiculous. And I think it was both. No, it was just funny that it was called very large. Yeah, very large scale. All right, after four rounds, we have a two -way tie for first. Losh and Taylor. We have Emma in second with five. Amel in third with four. And Adam and Jared tied for last with three points. We move now to round five. Your word for round five is Zymurgy. Z -Y -M -U -R -G -Y. Zymurgy. Now you put that in the chat. That's not my real one. That was my throw away. Okay,

that one. Oh man, this is hard. This one's tough. For those not in the chat, Zymurgy, a controversial dance move banned from the 1988 Olympics. I just like the idea that there'd be a dance move banned. And the specificity of 1988 is also a nice touch. I actually had to do the math. I was like, was there an Olympics in 1980? I had to count backwards from 2000. Controversially, there was one in... 1972. And you're pretty safe just guessing even your numbers, right? Pretty safe. That dance move was the cause of them having to do the 1989 Olympics. Did you go and start your printer, Adam? I heard some weird noise. Yeah, that's what I call that. Call that printer. What I just did is I called, yeah, start a printer. I'm very confused. How did he flush a toilet? Is that what happened? You heard that. It's really far away. I did not hear a thing for what it's worth. The other day I was driving the kids home. I was driving home with the kids and I told them when we get home, I'm going to drop the kids off at the pool. And like two of my kids were completely stunned. Had no idea what I was talking about. And my nine -year -old boy, he was onto it immediately. Oh yeah. He's like, that is so funny. He said it for like the next three days straight. Drop the kids off at the pool. All right. I just thought of that because, you know. I did not drop any kids off at the pool just now. Just to be clear. Gonna go run a print job. I'm gonna use that one next. Taking the Browns to the Super Bowl. The level has risen. Oh yeah. Pretty sure that was a number one and not a number two for what it is. If it was a number two though, that's really impressive. Speedy. Just printing over here. Don't worry about me. Turning on my printer. All right. Zymergy. The result of the merge event of two zygotes. An academic term for the lack of a synergistic effect where two separate processes do not interact or affect one another in a measurable way. The process in which a zygote or a fertilized egg cell resulting from the union of an egg and a sperm embeds itself within the uterine lining. This process is also more commonly referred to as implantation. Zymergy occurs when there is more than one asteroid headed in the same direction. The study of fermentation and brewing. Or the cooperative advantage of small independent groups. Six definitions for Zymergy. Adam, you're up first this time. Read number six again, please. Number six is the cooperative advantage of small independent groups. That's like the anomaly of them all, you know? They're all very scientific. Two was too long. Five was fermentation. I'm going with six. Six. Adam goes with the cooperative advantage of small independent groups and we go to Amel. I'm going to go with number one. Number one. The result of the merge event of two zygotes. Okay, maybe not. What do you mean? What was the... Okay, fine. Fine. Let's do that. The other one with zygotes also sounded interesting, but let's do that one. Merging goats. Uh, Losh. This one was genuinely very tricky. What was the one with just one zygote? The process in which a zygote or fertilized egg cell resulting from the union of an egg and a sperm embeds itself within the uterine lining. This process is also more commonly referred to as implantation. That was number three. I'm not sure it's referred to as implantation, but okay. Speculating the speculation. I love it. I'm not sure it's referred to as that. It's just called making a baby, you know? Baby making. There's lots of terms for it. Human creation. You know, a baby goat is called a kid, so kids become goats and goat and zygotes become kids. Oh, deep. That's the title of this episode. That's very meta. Yeah.

A

baby goat. A baby goat is a kid. Give me my baby goat. What are you going to go with, Losh? Do you like that one or did implantation scare you off? Uh, no. I'm trying to remember the other ones. They're all pretty crappy for what it's worth. Not our best round. We have the study of fermentation and brewing. We have more than one asteroid headed in the same direction. Do you want more with the cooperative advantage of small independent groups? I'll actually go with the small independent groups as well. Taylor, your turn. I have no clue. Welcome to the club. You guys took the good one. Let's go with a fermentation. Was there one about fermentation? Yes, the study of fermentation and brewing. Yeah, that sounds wrong, but let's do it. Oh my gosh. I think that's called hipsterism. Mm hmm. Okay. And Emma. Originally I was going to pick number one as well, but then I'm thinking, what, like can two zygotes actually merge? I don't think, is that scientifically possible? And it sounds very much like the merging of zygotes. So that seems like an easy definition. Also, the last one sounds like corporate BS, so it could also be true. What is a corporate advantage or collaborative advantage? A cooperative advantage of small independent groups. Like, what the hell does that mean? Game theory, dude. Game theory, dude. I love it. Very, pretty defensive there, Taylor. I don't know, man. I could get on board with the, the fermentation is like a, like a scientific thing that happens with growth and whatnot. So like metallurgy, xymergy. But then there's synergy, which is also a cooperation of team people. So I'm like, right. So you're going to go corporate or you're going to go beer. Whoever made up that, that cooperation thing is going to get a whole buttload of points this round. So I'm going to trust Taylor and go with the fermentation. Cause I feel like we would have heard the terms xymergy, if it was really a corporate BS word. Wow. Hey, that's pretty good logic actually. All right. Taylor and Emma team up, no spread. Wow. This is dangerous guys. I'm an independent on number one. I just want to put that out there. You know, tell her Jared Amell. Let's start right there. Then Amell independently picked Adams again. What's going on? This is not fair. This is not fair at all. It's like clockwork as per usual. It doesn't go well for the independence. Sorry to say. Yes. Adam teamed up with Losh to pick the cooperative advantage of small independent groups. Emma almost picked it, but she thought we would know about it if it was a real silly term. And it's a fake silly term made up by Taylor. So two points there. Go to one. It's not even science. That's what I was trying to understand. Y 'all that's not even STEM. Like, how is that? Like, I didn't want to point that out, but like, it's not. It's game theory, guys. It's game theory, which is science. Dude. And the spread was not applied. So a lot riding on this. Taylor and Emma both thought Zymergy was the study of fermentation brewing. Unfortunately, they were correct. That is the correct definition, which means I score zero points. Emma gets two for that. Taylor gets four for the round. Big round for Taylor. Moving him in the first place with 10 points. He's two points away from stealing this one. I think we should start minding the Taylor spread. As he has 10, Emma with seven is in second. Losh was six of Mel and Adam with four and me a meager flask three. What's up, friends? I'm here with one of our good friends for Ross of Luca DJ for Ross is the founder and CEO of socket. You can find them at socket. Dev security supply chain ship with confidence. But for Ross, I have a question for you. What's the problem? What security concerns do developers face when consuming open source dependencies? What does socket do to solve these problems? So the problem that socket solves is when a developer is choosing a package, there's so much potential information they could look at, right? I mean, at the end of the day, they're trying to get a job done, right? There's a feature they want to implement. They want to solve a problem. So they go and find a package that looks like it might be a promising solution. Maybe they check to see that it has an open source license that has good docs. Maybe they check the number of downloads or GitHub stars. But most developers don't really go beyond that.

And if you think about what it means to use a good package, to find it, to use a good open source dependency, we care about a lot of other things too, right? We care about who is the maintainer? Is this thing well maintained? From a security perspective, we care about, does this thing have known vulnerabilities? Does it do weird things? Maybe it takes your environment variables and it sends them off to the network, you know, meaning it's going to take your API keys, your tokens, like that would be bad. The unfortunate thing is that today, most developers who are choosing packages and going about their day, they're

not looking for that type of stuff. It's not really reasonable to expect a developer to go and open up every single one of their dependencies and read

every line of code, not to mention that the average NPM package has 79 additional dependencies that it brings in. So you're talking about just, you know, thousands and thousands of lines of code. And so we do that work for the developer. So we go out and we fully analyze every piece of their dependencies. You know, every one of those lines of code. And we look for strange things. We look for those risks that they're not going to have time to look for. So we'll find, you know, we detect all kinds of attacks and kinds of malware and vulnerabilities and those dependencies, and we bring them to the developer and help them when they're at that moment of choosing a package.

Okay, that's good. So what's the install process? What's the getting started socket? Super easy to get started with. So, you know, our whole team is made up of developers. And so it's super developer friendly. We got tired of using security tools that send a ton of alerts and were hard to configure and just kind of

noisy. And so we built socket to fix all those problems. So we have all the typical integrations you'd expect, a CLI, a GitHub app, an API, all that good stuff. But most of our users use socket through the GitHub app. And it's a really fast install. A couple of clicks, you get it going and it monitors all your pull requests and you can get an accurate and kind of in -depth analysis of all your dependencies. Really high signal to noise. You know, it doesn't just cover vulnerabilities. It's actually about the full picture of dependency risk and quality, right? So we help you make better decisions about dependencies that you're using directly in the pull request workflow directly directly where you're

spending your time as a developer. You know, whether you're managing a small project or a large application with thousands of dependencies, socket has you covered and it's pretty simple to use. It's really not a complicated tool. Very cool. The next step is to go to socket .dev, install the GitHub app or book a demo. Either works for us. Again, socket .dev. That's S O C K E T dot dev. Round six. Your word, I guess it's a phrase in this case for round six is Wirth's law. Wirth's law. W I R T H is the name and law is the game. Please submit to me your definitions. I really feel like I've heard of this, but I have no idea. Yeah, I've heard of this too. Game theory, dude. Game theory, dude. That's going to be my answer to everything from now on. It's better than it depends. That's what I'm going to tell my clients. So how do we do that? Well, game theory, dude. That's better than saying automagical. You just say it's game theory. What's wrong with saying automagical? Stop hating on that. It's a great word. I saw your little thing about that. No, it's a fantastic automagic. Every time I use it, especially outside of tech settings, people fall in love with me. Give me their numbers. That's one of the reasons why it's stupid. It's like manipulative.

All

I can think of is Sturgeon's law right now, which is Sturgeon's law is 90 % of everything is crap. It's a good law. Wirth's law. Peg Lake Boy from Diablo. It was a very good game. I've heard that. I think we need to play music during the live show, not the edited show. Just putting it out there, Jared. It's time to step up your host game. Elevator music. Can we have Matt in for just making up jingles? That would be nice. Just for some live strumming, you know. He could just like make up jargon during the strumming just to inspire us too. Or actually, now that BMC has been on the show, just be here. Just polka. That live BMC would be sweet. That would be extremely distracting for me. I love music, especially EDM. Well, it's going to be polka, so... Well, you're the one that requested it, Mal. Yeah, no, I know. But I didn't request EDM, live EDM with a DJ. That's not what I... That's a party for me.

We

throw parties around here. That's what we do. That's true, that's true. Let's see, am I missing some still? I'm missing Adam's. Consistently the last enter. I can't think of anything. I've got Loblok. Is that like Bob Loblok's Loblok? That's right. Taylor, I think we need to get you a t -shirt that says I started from the bottom and now I'm on top. Oh. Remember last time? I think you were the expected winner, but then it turned out to be Losh. Yes. I expected Losh to win. Thank you.

Yeah, look at him.

Well, Taylor is within striking distance. We begin round six Wirth's law. We have six definitions. Number one, the quality of a code base is inversely proportional to the number of people that work on it. Number two, two particles of the same mass, but different densities will have the same release of energy during combustion. Number three, an adage on computer performance, which states that software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware is becoming faster. Number four, science can never be used to prove something. Number five, proposed in the late 1900s, Wirth's law states that the security of a cryptographic system depends on the key length and algorithmic complexity rather than the secrecy of the algorithm. And number six, this one has to be very serious. In nature. Also known as meager flask. Also known as meager flask. And number six, Wirth's law, when in doubt, Pareto's principle. What? I have a feeling I know who wrote that. Wirth's law, when in doubt, Pareto's principle. Okay. We begin now with Amel. I think three sounded the most interesting and so did five. Could you repeat those two? Three was the adage on computer performance, which states that the software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware is becoming faster. Number five was the security of a cryptographic system depends on the key length and algorithmic complexity rather than the secrecy of the algorithm. Yeah, that's too many words. I think I'm going to go with three. Three. Very good. Losh? I'd go with the cryptographic one. Cryptographic one, that's number five. Taylor? I completely forgot all of them, so I'm going to pile on with them all. She's gone independent a few times and I feel like I need to support her. Oh, thanks. It was getting lonely over here, you know? She sounds unimpressed. Okay. He's going to pile on. So that's with the adage on computer performance, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, there was two computer performance ones, right? Yeah, number one and number three. So you're on number three or did you want number one? The quality of code base is inversely proportional to the number of the people that work on it. No, it sounds fake. Let's go with number three. And I think for the sake of the game, let's hope that I'm wrong and so is Taylor. Just want to put that out there. No problem. Okay. Emma, what are you thinking? What was number two again? Number two was Orslaw states that two particles of the same mass but different densities will have the same release of energy during combustion. I'm so tired of the space ones. Not for any particular reason other than my brain does not comprehend the meaning behind the words. So I'm torn between one and whichever one Emil and Taylor piled onto. So that's three. I'll go one to spread it out. For what it's worth, the particles don't have to be in space. Like they can be any particles. Isn't it all space? That's not worth much, Emil. Too many words. I just wanted to make sure. Okay, cool. I just Emil wants to clarify the definition for some reason. Adam, what are you thinking? I'm not picking two, but I want to hear it again. You want to hear it again? Oh yeah. End to end. Orslaw states that two particles of the same mass but different densities will have the same release of energy during combustion. In parentheses, it says whether it's in space or not. What about number one again? What was that one again? Inversely what? Number one. The quality of a code base is inversely proportional to the number of people that work on it. And the three they're piling on, what's the difference with that one? Computer performance what? Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware is becoming faster. Oh yeah. Let's hang there with everybody else. Yeah, you're gonna hang out with everybody else. Yeah. Okay. I personally actually believe in that, which is why I picked it. That's truth right there. I'm not sure if it's the law that's truth. All right. Well, let's start with Emma. She thought perhaps Wirth's law is that the quality of a code base is inversely proportional to the number of people that work on it. Taylor thought that sounded made up and that's because he made it up. And so he gets one point for that. He's now one point away of being the victor. Losh thought that perhaps it was the cryptographic system that depends on the key length and algorithmic complexity rather than the secrecy of the algorithm. And that was Emma's definition. So at one point for her. Yeah, Emma, you do have the most technical and nerdy definitions. I just want to put that out there for sure. I read a lot, you know. That's why I also projected that you would be the winner of this game, to be honest. It's because you're the one who reads the most. Yeah, excellent definition. Borderline, they're too good. They're like a little bit too long, a little bit too studious. They need to be. Yeah, I get it. I'll dumb it down for everyone. Dumb it down for us, would you? They're too chat GPT. You know what I mean? But I know you didn't use it. It was like Emma GPT, you know. Yeah, she's like a robot. Do you have a book list somewhere? Of what? The books you read? Like, oh, yeah. I mean, I'm on Goodreads, but I read every genre. So you got a preference. Come see me. I'll hook you up. Nice. Well, it all comes down to this since Taylor is one point away from winning. He piled on. We have a Mel, Taylor and Adam. They're all on number three. And so maybe they're all correct. Maybe they're all wrong. And we play on Wirth's law and adage on computer performance, which states that software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware is becoming faster. Sounds true and sounds like Wirth's law indeed. So you guys all got it. Correct. That is Wirth's law. Oh, no, Taylor. No, no. Giving Taylor three points for the round. Adam gets two. Amel gets two. And after six rounds of play, Taylor with 13 points is our winner. Nice. Yay. Good job, Taylor. Yeah, good job, actually. Yes. As the victor, you now have to give a speech. Oh, I have to give a speech. Yes. So right now on the spot, you have to give some kind of speech. We'll wait eagerly your words. I think the last long thing I wrote about on taylor .town, my website, was my pardoning of engineers. I pardoned all junior engineers. I think that's the last long speech I gave. Very impassioned. I think you want to read that online. That's still there. It also has an associated little repo called wigwam .directory. That's a URL that you can type into your browser. wigwam .directory. And that will lead you to a list of alternative projects to bloat. Because, you know, Wurtz Law. Wurtz Law states that software is getting slower than Harvard, Grady, and Thatcher. I don't like that. So wigwam directory is a, I think, hopeful solution to that. So that's my speech. And a pointer to a speech. Very good. We will link up the pointer to the speech as well as to the wigwam .directory. I didn't know of this TLD. That's a new one to me. Very cool. Let's do some quick post -game analysis as we close. You know, a nice cool down. Losh, your thoughts on this round of Pound of Fine and why you didn't win. Well, because I played too poorly. That's why. But it was fun to see Taylor kind of start by going into his old shenanigans and just like, there was something goofy. It was the wiggle bone. Like, I think we started with the wiggle bone. Yeah. But then he just played it straight, I think, generally. He's got great poker face. When he wants to. Because he always looks a little ridiculous, you know? So it's like, you can't tell. Game theory. It's game theory, dude. Game theory. Yeah. Like, if you look at his eyes when you're reading out the things, he's just like an owl, you know? Like, hunting in the dark. He's like this, like that, you know? Dang. Yeah, yeah. You're like, very like, I can't tell what you're thinking. So you have the best poker face out of everyone. Amal, when I look into your eyes, I see. Aw, do you want me to take my glasses off? Would that be better for you? Oh, there we go. There we go. Yeah. I see the eyes of a crow. Like, a very smart crow. That's such a compliment. Thank you. I love crows. Crows are so... One of the ones that solves puzzles. That's like, the nicest thing anyone has said to me this year. Thank you. You need to get out more, dear. This year, we're at the end of the year, too. That's good. That's a long time. Yeah, that's a very nice compliment. That is. Let's go to Adam. Adam, you were trailing behind, but you actually pulled into a three -way tie for third place at the end of the game with that last round. Your thoughts on pound of fine and your placement here. Third place, nothing to shake a stick out or at. How do you feel? I think it's just challenging to write these definitions. It really is. It's challenging because you can be so ridiculous because you're trying to make something up. Yeah. And then you're also trying to decipher through the BS. And then you've got Taylor here, who sometimes does throw the oddities out there. And so you really got to pay close attention to what's on the field and what to choose from. And you obviously can't choose your own BS. So right. But Amel, curious why it is that you find yourself so attracted to Adam's definitions. I mean, I don't know, years of listening to changelog, perhaps it's like socially conditioned my brain. I don't know. You know, it's better. Play along better. Exactly. Yeah. He's just, he just sounds so authoritative, you know, what can I say? But also like my request is for next time that we just totally flipped the script on the rules, made up words, made up definitions. And like points go to the person who gets the most like hits. You know what I mean? So there is no, there has to be a real definition. You're just saying the words are all made up. No, there doesn't. I mean, I ever, why does there have to be? Yeah. What you're saying is when in doubt, Pareto's principle. Basically. Yes, that's correct. Yeah, that was one of Adam's definitions that you did not pick was that one. Yes, it was the worst. I just couldn't come up with anything. He couldn't come up with anything. I knew that. So he was like, when in doubt, you know, I like the idea that somebody's law though, just refers to somebody else's law. You know, that's kind of a fun idea. That's what's a principle. Yeah, but I couldn't actually get through without laughing because of the reference. There is Hofstadter's law, which dates that, uh, software projects always fall behind. Even if you take into account Hofstadter's law. Oh yeah. I like that one. Self -referential. Emma, your first game of pound to find you fared quite admirably. I think you ended up in second place, so excellent job. Oh, neato. Great job. Thank you. What are your thoughts? What is your opinion? How do you feel? Yeah, um, I would say etymology is not a gift we are all granted with as is displayed by those. No, I'm just kidding. I will say being too intelligent was my downfall. So if you were to have me back, I will change my definitions for the plebeians of the tech industry. Dang. Thank you. Okay. This was a lot of fun. I genuinely had no idea about any of them. Yeah. We just need to watch, we need to watch some reality TV before you come on the show. That's what needs to happen. I do. I'm a huge love Island fan, so I will bulk up on it. Woke up on love Island. That'd be a good game plan for next time. Yeah. That'll, that'll take you down a few notches just temporarily, you know, just for the game. That's true. All right. Well, this has been round two of pound to find. We have a new champion, Taylor Troesh, and we have five new losers, some of which already were, and we have me, your humble host and sometimes not so humble. Thank you for listening. Thank you for playing along. If you liked this game, go back and listen to round one where I get defeated by the humble mega flask, uh, walls all around. And that's a fun one as well. If you like these games in general and you want to hear more of them, do let us know. We enjoy playing them. If you enjoy listening to them, we will do them more often. So that's pound of fine. That's change log and friends. Any final words, Adam, before we just say goodbye. Bye friends. All right. Bye y 'all. Thanks for hanging out. This game is just too much fun, too much fun. So a bunch of us stuck around and played an additional two rounds, which we recorded and produced and included for our changelog plus plus members change log plus plus it's better. So if you can't get enough pound of fine and or you appreciate our pods and want to support our work sign up today at changelog .com slash plus plus in return, we provide you with an ad free feed extended episodes like this one and that warm fuzzy feeling you only get by putting your hard earned cash behind people who make things you love. Once again, that's changelog .com slash plus plus it's better. Thanks again to our partners. Fassy .com fly .io and typesense .org and to the beat freaking residents break master cylinder who has two more changelog beats albums in the works next week on the change log news on Monday, our sixth annual state of the log episode on Wednesday. And that's it. No Friday episode next week, no more episodes at all until the turn of the new year. Thank you so much for listening in 2023. We truly appreciate it. That is all for now, but let's talk again next year.